How I Became a Christian (LONG) - Page 6

Jeff V · #51 10-10-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
do you (should I), believe in talking snakes

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the Bible should be read like literature, paying close attention to genre and figures of speach. I see alot of the OT especially Genesis as a historical narrative with symbolism, & repetitive poetic structure. I have a "Life Application Study Bible" which helps with many of these things.

NotReady · #52 10-10-2005, 04:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Regardless, thanks for the reply.

[/ QUOTE ]

YW.

I don't think there's any real danger, by the way. Having your faith shaken or called into question can cause some short term problems, but working through them helps in the long run. And we often make mistakes which can be corrected by debate and discussion. I've had a couple subtle changes in my thinking over the past year due largely to this forum.

NotReady · #53 10-10-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]

And would you be saying this if his testimony led him to become Jewish or Muslim?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see any need to encourage them. Have any Jews or Muslims encouraged him? Have you?

NotReady · #54 10-10-2005, 04:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Do you (am I) supposed to take the old testament literally? i.e. do you (should I), believe in talking snakes, men living to be 900 years old, etc? If so, I don't think I can get past that. I'm not sure anyone should.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to take this as a general objection to miracles, or what is in the Bible that modern science can't explain and/or says is impossible according to known natural law.

The simple answer is that if God created the universe He can do the far lesser miracles related in the Bible. If He snapped His fingers and light appeared, what does it take to make an axe float or a sea to part?

I've never understood objecting to miracles without first objecting to God. Given God, miracles are easy.

David Sklansky · #55 10-10-2005, 04:14 PM

I'll rephrase my question. Do you consider it progress if someone moves from atheism to Islam? If no, how about Mormonism?

NotReady · #56 10-10-2005, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]

We don't need absolutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that an absolute?

[ QUOTE ]

I am aware that you believe Christianity is somehow different from all the heathen beliefs, but, quite simply, it isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is poles apart from any other religion, heathen or otherwise. This is easy to demonstrate.

[ QUOTE ]

The absolute morality given to us by an imaginary god is necessarily imaginary

[/ QUOTE ]

Question begging.

NotReady · #57 10-10-2005, 04:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Do you consider it progress if someone moves from atheism to Islam? If no, how about Mormonism?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say it's progress as a general rule but it may be the right step for some. But all false religions are idolotry and I don't think that's any better or worse than atheism.

So I wouldn't congratulate someone on moving from atheism to a false religion. It could be a step closer to God for him, but it could also be a step away from God. I think this is something that is ad hoc, and only God and the individual know which.

David Sklansky · #58 10-10-2005, 04:37 PM

"But all false religions are idolotry and I don't think that's any better or worse than atheism.

So I wouldn't congratulate someone on moving from atheism to a false religion. It could be a step closer to God for him, but it could also be a step away from God."

A step AWAY from God compared to ATHEISM? Doubt most Christians would agree with you.

Meanwhile what fits your definition of a "false religion"? You seem to include the Jesus believing Mormons in that definition. But you certainly don't mean any religion that doesn't precisely fit yours. What about Christian Scientists, Jehovah's witnesses, Catholics? What about the guy (if such a person exists) who believes that Jesus is the son of God who died for our sins but specifically stays away from worrying about the specifics that Christians squabble about. Are members of this hypothetical, no name, religion OK in your book?

KeysrSoze · #59 10-10-2005, 04:44 PM

Alot of people had moments of epiphany in the presense of David Koresh, Jim Jones, and Charles Manson. It may be good enough for the individual, but is that enough to convince others that they were Messianic? Obviously not. But when you talk about Jesus or some established religion changing your life, people dont give it a second thought. I do. Hearing someone base their believe system on a warm, peachy feeling they had while rock-bottom does absolutely nothing to sway my opinion.

Lestat · #60 10-10-2005, 04:52 PM

So you honestly DO believe that once upon a time there was a single male member of our species walking around before any presence of a female existed?

It is not that I object to God before miracles. It is quite the opposite. It seems that you require me to believe in miracles before believing in God. The problem is that we are starting to arrive at answers for some of the events you profess as miracles .

It is certainly understandable how man once gazed in awe upon erupting volcanos or thunder and lightning coming from the sky and assumed there must be some supernatural being causing these things. The Gods must be angry.

My question to you is what happens to your line of thinking as these miracles become solved one by one? We now know exactly what causes volcanos to erupt. We know what causes thunder and lightning. I presume that even you would try to explain to someone why a volcano erupts or what causes thunder, rather than let him continue to believe that there is a serperate God of the volcanos or a thunder God, right? But surely you can see how reasonable people believed in them back then, can't you?

And now we are starting to understand the theory of evolution. So what happens to your faith when it becomes scientific fact that man evolved from apes and were present before Adam and Eve?

Again, I'm not trying to be flippant. I just don't understand the mindset of someone who steadfastly denies reality in the face of scientific fact.