How's Your Turn Play?

[Paxosmotic]

Hi, I'm devils advocate

In hand 1, aren't we worried about villain only calling with a hand that beats us and folding all worse hands?

Only one person so far has advocated a bet/fold on our flush in hand 2, how do we know where we are if we don't bet?

Hand 3, how are we discussing folding? We hit one of our outs, why do we hit an out and fold?

[deception5]

check/check/call

[MrWookie47]

Down with the devil!

1. If villain holds a worse hand in this situation, I'd be impressed. Eight high isn't all that tough to beat. If he folds, it was almost certainly with a better hand.

2. Ah, betting just to "know where we stand." I don't think this warrants any more words than EV > info.

3. Mmmmm, hand reading...

I know you're not actively thinking any of this, but you're going to have to do a better job advocating satanic ways.

[Paxosmotic]

Well see the problem with that is that you're a big mister stinkyhead and we had like a 4 hour conversation about these hands last night, so you already know all the answers and why they're the answers, so you just go back to locking threads that aren't mine, devil hater.

[POKhER]

Hand one(8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]),
looks like its best to continue to bet this implying you have the king. I thought about check raising but if he checks your screwed for your bluff on the river(Although you may hit your flush).
If he's on the flush draw its probably best to continue to bet and if he misses the river bet again. Folding to a raise unless tricky.

hand two(8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])
Trickier hand, I think its just a case of betting again even though our flush may not be best here. If raised i think we can fold this relatively small pot. If he is tricky though(YOu didnt say any of them were) call down(YUCK).

Hand three (A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])
3bet, Chances are he may of put you on a big pocketpair(And isn't fearing AA). 3bet as i think we're ahead(You say tags and hes UTG and the board cards are low - A9 maybe). If he caps i'll call one last bet on river.

P.s. I'll be wrong, I'm always wrong.

[aces_dad]

Pocket 7's and 9's could easily play this way - the reason for the flop check/call may have been an attempt to trap the field for 2 on the flop with a c/r, but since everyone folded but hero, he decided to wait until the turn to c/r HU vs the chance to c/r the flop vs multiple callers. If the whole game is 'tag' like I could see pocket 3's getting mucked UTG+2 here though they are possible, and pocket 9's could be played for a raise as well. Certainly any limped pp is calling one back preflop.

J10 spades could also play this way with a gut-shot and bdf draw on the flop along with overs. This would be from a more aggressive TAG player semi-bluffing as he has to feel you've at least made one pair of A's and thus is likely to get to showdown. This makes me think it's more likely some made hand with a c/r than a semi-bluff; you're the PFR / bet flop/bet turn with an A on turn, your likely going to showdown thus the semi-bluff loses some of it's FE value.

The only thing which makes me question the fact we're behind is that Brad said 3bet here ... otherwise I'm trying to get to showdown cheaply and calling down from here.

[VoraciousReader]

I confess. I read most of the thread.

After a thread gets to be a certain length, I think grunching=saying the same thing over and over. But so I couldn't cheat, I wrote down my answers before I read.

Hand 1: Bet. For all the reasons given.

Hand 2: Check behind. I want to show this down. Checking may induce a bluff from a worse hand and saves us from having to pay off a turn checkraise and a river bet.

Hand 3: My original answer was 3-bet, then the thread made me rethink that, and now as I type this, I'm rethinking again. I think if we're behind, it's not to two pair therefore I don't give us any hidden outs. I actually think it's a fold, but I don't want to encourage the thinking TAG over there to take shots at me on the turn for the rest of the night.

Yuk. I want to fold, but I probably call down and hate myself when he shows 7-7-7.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: Check behind. I want to show this down. Checking may induce a bluff from a worse hand and saves us from having to pay off a turn checkraise and a river bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking of this as a good option, too. It costs the same amount of bets to see the showdown by checking behind and calling a river bet.

The real question is whether the fold equity on the turn + the odds of having the best hand here is better just going for a showdown.

I still think that the bet/fold line is best if the opponent is not a tricky one. If the opponent is tricky, then showdown poker it is.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: Check behind. I want to show this down. Checking may induce a bluff from a worse hand and saves us from having to pay off a turn checkraise and a river bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking of this as a good option, too. It costs the same amount of bets to see the showdown by checking behind and calling a river bet.

The real question is whether the fold equity on the turn + the odds of having the best hand here is better just going for a showdown.

I still think that the bet/fold line is best if the opponent is not a tricky one. If the opponent is tricky, then showdown poker it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

What fold equity do we have against a better hand on this board? If we have the best hand, why do we want the villain folding? If the villain has a better hand, then I'd rather find out for one bet at showdown, rather than no showdown costing us up to two bets.

[baronzeus]

bet, check (although if hes loose enough to call down with a pair i'd bet/fold), call or raise ( i dont think it matters much)