Tight and aggressive preflop is not enough

[einbert]

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I think the point is that raising "for information" is useless if you're going to turn a deaf ear when your opponent starts giving it out. Basically the guy w/ TT should have either found a fold somewhere or tried to get to showdown as quickly as possible; instead, he did neither.

Also, the chances of our opponent (bdk) having AK or AQ drop significantly once he bets the turn. I'm not sure where you came up with the 50/50 thing, but I think believing we're ahead half the time is being very, very optimistic.

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I agree it's optomistic.....but why didn't the OP just say the guy should have folded. period.

The quote "lose the most; win the least", is outcome dependent, and I'm not sure this was a good example of what the point was if there is a clear fold.

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The POINT is that TT's line was totally suboptimal against BDK's likely range of hands.

Think about this: What hand is a TAG going to three-bet the flop with, then bet the turn on this board like this? Against that range of hands, do you have the odds to call down? By checkraising the flop and getting three-bet (and bet into on the turn) TT was able to significantly narrow down TAG's range of hands, but he still played the hand out as if AK was a significant possibility.

I remember reading this when it was first posted and being very afraid that I was actually BDK's opponent. To this day I think that I might have been, lol. I feel like I have learned a lot since then ^^.

[oreogod]

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If I raise with TT and get 3-bet, the first thing I'd do is decide if I'm committed to showdown against an opponent. If I'm not, I like his flop line and think he should fold the turn unimproved. I really think that whether I 3-bet that flop or not defines my hand. Him checking the flop is standard/automatic, as is my initial flop bet--it's his flop checkraise that forces me to define my hand.

If I'm showdown-committed, I can check-call, check-call, bet-call-a-raise or something like that. Unless my opponent is ridiculously aggressive I just don't want a ton of bets going in with a medium overpair.

The reason I'd tend to call the flop 3-bet with TT is that if my opponent did 3-bet there with AK/AQ, he'll often check the turn and take his free card, in which case you should bet a blankish river. Otherwise, just fold once the turn gets bet--you've invested 1.5 BBs in the pot instead of 2.5 or more if you take the line he did.

If you suspect someone is indeed betting the flop with overcards, look them up like he did or bet the turn. Just don't put as much money in as he did on the flop, turn, and river, especially when I'm the one deciding whether a bet goes in or not on the turn and river.

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This thread lives again...wow. But this post says it all in me opinion.