Spider 6max hands - Page 6

DMBFan23 · #51 03-25-2005, 04:52 PM

Hand 1, I 3 bet the river.

Hand 2, good fold.

Hand 3, meh. I never know whether to call this river or not.

Hand 4, I like.

detruncate · #52 03-25-2005, 04:59 PM

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Given the read, i think its safe to bail on the river (if not sooner) on hand 13.

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(hand 13)
even after the board pairs? there is almost no way the flush helped him (to pass me.. who cares if he goes from a straight to a st. flush), unless I had the best hand on the turn. so it seems inconsistent to call the turn, get a half decent card and fold the river..... unless my turn call was atrocious and i need to bail anyway.

i think a turn fold is better than a river fold.. but the river fold may be correct as well. that hand sucked.

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You're right... a turn call necessitates a river call on a blank. But I'm also worried that a passive/predictable player is betting a 4-flush board. He'll check his straight a lot of the time, no? It adds at least an extra bit of incentive to fold, and given that I liked a fold anyway, I think it's more than enough to tip the balance.

DeathbySuckout · #53 03-25-2005, 05:50 PM

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any comments from the lurkers or those who said they'd look at this later?
is this useful, would you want another set of hands dropped into another topic?

keep flaming my play if you see stuff that i did wrong [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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This is very useful, as is the comments and critiques. Thank you all.

btspider · #54 03-25-2005, 06:36 PM

last one for this topic.. i'll put together another topic sometime later.

Hand 15: Spider Slowplays #2
A rare situation where I slowplay. This is what letting someone make a second best hand is all about.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, SB calls, Hero caps, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (18 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 20 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kh Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Button has Th Td (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 20 BB.

KaiShin · #55 03-25-2005, 06:47 PM

Still I bet that river scared you didn't it [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

DocMartin · #56 03-25-2005, 11:30 PM

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In straight HU pots, you're always walking a fine line between the desire to get more bets into the pot and the avoidance of chip spewery. This often necessitates playing more passively than you would with more than one opponent or lots of dead money in the pot.

How does "finding out where we're at" help? Are you really folding this to a flop 3-bet against an unknown? How about a turn follow-up bet? We're behind to Qx, QT, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA on the flop, most of which would probably have been raised pf. We have Ax (x<J) covered. We have any PP less than TT drawing slim. We have other Ts drawing to 3 outs on the flop unless his kicker is <T, and even then at least 3 of his 6 probable turn outs will result in a split (2xQ, 1xT). A turn J or K that gives someone a bigger 2-pair or straight leaves us with boat and straight redraws.

We're taking this hand to showdown. It's too strong not to. We also want him to put a bet in on every street, hopefully with the worst hand. If we're going to extend ourselves any further, we need to know that he'd LAG it up with a hand that we beat. "Average" is not good enough.

Remember that this is going to get expensive in a hurry if we're prone to overplaying -- there's 5.5 SB in the pot on the flop after he leads, and we're only getting 1:1 going forward. There isn't much margain for error.

We also don't want to push him out when he's bluffing a second best hand -- an extra 2 BB is very significant relative to the pot size, and it's imperative that we get it when we're ahead since we'll be spending it when we're behind. Think about this in the context of playing out this hand over the longterm.

HU play is incredibly read dependent. Beyond the obvious "I've got a monster and hope you have a good second best hand" situations, you need know who you're up against so you can decide when it's appropriate to extend yourself. Remember that errors are magnified, so you can't be wrong nearly as often. It's an entirely different world from the usual multi-way, large pot lines.

So no... I don't think the call/call/call line is over-used in situations like this.

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nice post, it's sinking in. My first read of HPFAP and some recent posts on less aggressive lines are slowly curing me of the auto-aggression often drilled in the forums.

jaxUp · #57 03-25-2005, 11:46 PM

thanks for reminding me what a pussy I've been for the last 2 days