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#51
11-09-2005, 02:46 PM
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Re: MLB banished for one year!
"Saying the Yankees already had a lead when he came in is just dumb, keeping a lead is important too."
You basically made his point in your post- its not that Riviera wasn't important to his team, but htat others are more important. Without A-rod in the middle of the lineup how many times are they in the lead to give it to Mariano. 
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#52
11-09-2005, 03:08 PM
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Re: MLB banished for one year!
You must have missed it when I said "I think it is a huge stretch to say Rivera was the Cy last year". Same goes for MVP. What I was disputing was this:
[ QUOTE ] Somehow, the rest of the team is able to get and hold a lead without him on the mound. So they don't need him to get the lead. [/ QUOTE ] This is the bit that doesn't make sense. If you want to say he isn't the MVP, this isn't the way to do it.
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#53
11-09-2005, 03:22 PM
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Re: Bartolo Colon Wins AL Cy Young
[ QUOTE ]
Explain to me how Colon was better than Santana. The only statistics Colon leads in are W and IP. W can be entirely chalked up to the teams that they were on. Santana led in WHIP, ERA, BAA, BB/K, all by a big margin. [/ QUOTE ] Save one bad outing in which he gave up 9 runs to Alex Rodriquez alone back in May, Colon was the Ace of the American League. Last year Santana was. Not this year.
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#54
11-09-2005, 03:26 PM
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Re: Bartolo Colon Wins AL Cy Young
[ QUOTE ]
I thought Rivera would win it as almost a "lifetime achievement" thing. He is clearly the best closer this year, and is arguably the best closer ever. [/ QUOTE ] The only thing dumber than judging the Cy Young winner by wins, would be doing something such as this.
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#55
11-09-2005, 03:29 PM
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Re: Bartolo Colon Wins AL Cy Young
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Explain to me how Colon was better than Santana. The only statistics Colon leads in are W and IP. W can be entirely chalked up to the teams that they were on. Santana led in WHIP, ERA, BAA, BB/K, all by a big margin. [/ QUOTE ] Save one bad outing in which he gave up 9 runs to Alex Rodriquez alone back in May, Colon was the Ace of the American League. Last year Santana was. Not this year. [/ QUOTE ] I declare Jose Contreras the ace of the American League.
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#56
11-09-2005, 04:38 PM
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Re: Bartolo Colon Wins AL Cy Young
Colon was not the best pitcher in the league, but he wasn't a terrible selection. Jones would be:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/winshares/i...;leagueLimit=NL
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#57
11-09-2005, 05:23 PM
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Re: Bartolo Colon Wins AL Cy Young
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Explain to me how Colon was better than Santana. The only statistics Colon leads in are W and IP. W can be entirely chalked up to the teams that they were on. Santana led in WHIP, ERA, BAA, BB/K, all by a big margin. [/ QUOTE ] Save one bad outing in which he gave up 9 runs to Alex Rodriquez alone back in May, Colon was the Ace of the American League. Last year Santana was. Not this year. [/ QUOTE ] WTF lol
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#58
11-09-2005, 05:29 PM
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Re: Bartolo Colon Wins AL Cy Young
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I thought Rivera would win it as almost a "lifetime achievement" thing. He is clearly the best closer this year, and is arguably the best closer ever. [/ QUOTE ] The only thing dumber than judging the Cy Young winner by wins, would be doing something such as this. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think this is how it should be decided, but I thought that it was what might have inspired the voters to give it to him. Do you understand the difference there? My main point, which I made very clear, is that this selection is awful not because it wasn't given to Rivera, it's because if you want to go down that avenue of logic it wasn't even given to the best starter alternative to Rivera.
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#59
11-09-2005, 06:49 PM
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Re: Bartolo Colon Wins AL Cy Young
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Explain to me how Colon was better than Santana. The only statistics Colon leads in are W and IP. W can be entirely chalked up to the teams that they were on. Santana led in WHIP, ERA, BAA, BB/K, all by a big margin. [/ QUOTE ] Save one bad outing in which he gave up 9 runs to Alex Rodriquez alone back in May, Colon was the Ace of the American League. Last year Santana was. Not this year. [/ QUOTE ] WTF lol [/ QUOTE ] My point is he was having an "off-day" and Scioscia didn't protect him by pulling him in that game. After A-Rod hit two bombs off him. A two run homer, three run homer and granny. Could have been Barts decision to stay in the game. But many coaches would pull him to protect his numbers, I think? I could be wrong of course because it was so early in the year. But one bad outing doth not make bad a pitcher! IMO, a low ERA almost ALWAYS means the pitcher gave his team a chance to win, but a high ERA could mean that pitcher gave his team a chance to win every single time but once. Bart got victories. His ERA may have been well above 3, but he was a winner this year. <closing eyes to playoffs>. ERA should be looked at on a game-by-game basis. This is basically the "quality start" stat. But then you get into the whole "pitching to the score" argument and I don't want to go down that route agian! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#60
11-09-2005, 08:03 PM
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Re: Bartolo Colon Wins AL Cy Young
[ QUOTE ]
ERA should be looked at on a game-by-game basis. This is basically the "quality start" stat. [/ QUOTE ] But Santana had more quality starts than Colon, 24 to 21.
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