Sheffield = Clown

[hoopsie44]

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Crunch all the numbers you want. Joe Torre wants Sheffield or Matsui up in a key spot instead of Giambi, and that includes right now.

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Exactly. Sheffroid and Matsui (A-Rod too) have been productive all season, Giambi has not. In order for Torre to trust Giambi, I think Giambi has to do this for another few weeks or so. If he continues to do this, I think Giambi gets put higher up in the batting order. But if Giambi is really back, it will be hard to stop the Yankee line up if they make the playoffs.

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Whenever Torre has been interviewed post game for the last month, since Giambi has been on fire, he has been very deliberate in his praise of Giambi. He is encouraged and praises all the hard work Giambi has put in to get back to where he was. But you're right, 1 month does not make a season and Torre knows this. If Giambi does sustain this their lineup is very formidable.But some of the comments on this board stating Giambi has been the Yanks best hitter this year, per at bat, yada yada yada, people are playing with themselves.

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why the focus on one month when it has been shown numerous times that he was the second best hitter (when given the chance) the month of June?

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Measured by what ?

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OPS. the easiest way to measure a players offensive worth.

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So you're telling me BA with RISP and RBI's are meaningless ?

[Matt Williams]

[quoteBut some of the comments on this board stating Giambi has been the Yanks best hitter this year, per at bat, yada yada yada, people are playing with themselves.

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I agree. I think it's stupid too. I mean, Giambi still had a high on-base% in April and May. But anyone that watched him play everyday knew he did one of 2 things: strike out or walk. That's why I think on-base % is flawed. I am NOT saying it's a bad stat, just that it has flaws. I am a little league coach and the last 2 years the worse hitter on my team had the highest on base %. Why? Because he was too scared to hit the ball and walked all the time. His batting ave. was .000 and his on-base % was over .400. But he was the LAST player I wanted to see at the plate with a game on the line.

[Jack of Arcades]

I thought you were the guy that said you had to watch a player to judge them. Why're you using stats? Shouldn't you just say "well, Sheffield LOOKS like the better hitter"?

[sublime]

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Crunch all the numbers you want. Joe Torre wants Sheffield or Matsui up in a key spot instead of Giambi, and that includes right now.

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Exactly. Sheffroid and Matsui (A-Rod too) have been productive all season, Giambi has not. In order for Torre to trust Giambi, I think Giambi has to do this for another few weeks or so. If he continues to do this, I think Giambi gets put higher up in the batting order. But if Giambi is really back, it will be hard to stop the Yankee line up if they make the playoffs.

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Whenever Torre has been interviewed post game for the last month, since Giambi has been on fire, he has been very deliberate in his praise of Giambi. He is encouraged and praises all the hard work Giambi has put in to get back to where he was. But you're right, 1 month does not make a season and Torre knows this. If Giambi does sustain this their lineup is very formidable.But some of the comments on this board stating Giambi has been the Yanks best hitter this year, per at bat, yada yada yada, people are playing with themselves.

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why the focus on one month when it has been shown numerous times that he was the second best hitter (when given the chance) the month of June?

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Measured by what ?

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OPS. the easiest way to measure a players offensive worth.

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So you're telling me BA with RISP and RBI's are meaningless ?

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BA with RISP is a byproduct of 'clutch' which has been proven to not exist. I already explained why RBI's are inferior to otehr statistics.

OPS>OBP>SLG>HR>AVG>RBI (AVG/RISP doesnt even deserve to be mentioned)

if you want to continue to mine the stats to find situations where you look correct, feel free. you are wrong though.

[Triumph36]

This is the apparent stat-nerd dogma - RBIs and RISP are meaningless.

I disagree. Giambi has hit a lot of home runs lately, but they've almost all been solo home runs. This is not his fault necessarily, as it can be attributed to the fact that there are weaker hitters after Giambi and he will be pitched around with men on base. Still, it means his home runs are less valuable to the team than other home runs with men on base.

I still think there are merit to both 'flawed' statistics - some famous slugger said recently that they measure themselves by RBIs, which seems more relevant than OPS - two out doubles with no one on in the third inning are worth less than eighth inning singles with two men in scoring position. The problem with RBIs and RISP BA is that they're highly dependent on other variables, while OPS is not. I still think using OPS as the main (or sole) metric is flawed.

[sublime]

I am a little league coach and the last 2 years the worse hitter on my team had the highest on base %. Why? Because he was too scared to hit the ball and walked all the time. His batting ave. was .000 and his on-base % was over .400. But he was the LAST player I wanted to see at the plate with a game on the line.

OBP > than AVG

its NOT close. he is probably one of the BETTER offensive players on your team. he sounds like the perfect leadoff man.

[sublime]

This is not his fault necessarily

if by necessarily, you mean not his fault at ALL i agree. how the hell can you blame him for his teamates not being on base.

Still, it means his home runs are less valuable to the team than other home runs with men on base.

um, then maybe he should be moved up in the lineup? just a silly thought.

some famous slugger said recently that they measure themselves by RBIs, which seems more relevant than OPS

thank god theo epstein doesnt measure players like this.

[Triumph36]

I still think the Moneyball philosophy, as I know it (haven't read the book), is flawed. It is very successful against weak/mediocre pitching, but will falter against better pitching, i.e. in the playoffs. Drawing walks and hitting home runs is far easier against bad pitchers - good pitchers with good control won't walk many people, and won't give up many home runs. It is against these pitchers that manufacturing runs makes sense - giving up the shot at a 3 or 4 run inning for a more likely 1 run inning against a great pitcher can be +EV, IMO.

Let's not forget that had Boston not acquired the then .696-OPSed Dave Roberts, we're sitting here talking about the Yankees fifth championship in nine years. There has to be a departure from that strict philosophy.

[sublime]

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I still think the Moneyball philosophy, as I know it (haven't read the book), is flawed. It is very successful against weak/mediocre pitching, but will falter against better pitching, i.e. in the playoffs. Drawing walks and hitting home runs is far easier against bad pitchers - good pitchers with good control won't walk many people, and won't give up many home runs. It is against these pitchers that manufacturing runs makes sense - giving up the shot at a 3 or 4 run inning for a more likely 1 run inning against a great pitcher can be +EV, IMO.

Let's not forget that had Boston not acquired the then .696-OPSed Dave Roberts, we're sitting here talking about the Yankees fifth championship in nine years. There has to be a departure from that strict philosophy.

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i officially give up.

[Jack of Arcades]

You can't really compare little league players and major league baseball players.