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#51
10-17-2005, 04:39 PM
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Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
Commerce.
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#53
10-17-2005, 06:46 PM
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Re: My decision
[ QUOTE ]
No nut kicking took place. [/ QUOTE ] You had me 100% of the way, until here. Terrible ruling. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] al
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#54
10-17-2005, 07:03 PM
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Re: My decision
One thing you have to figure out when you're the floor is when it's appropriate to pull someone's (retrievable) hand from the muck. There is a commonly held notion that "the muck makes a hand irretrievably gone forever, never to be resurrected again, no matter what the circumstances, even by god himself." Not true.
One key to situations like this is "clear intent." Many irregularities can be solved by making sure it's known what each person intended to do, and in this case it doesn't seem very complicated... Clearly the guy with the flush didn't intend to fold. It's also pretty obvious the guy with kings was trying his best to win the pot without the best hand, an angle shot. I might break out the snorkel and fins to get cards out of that muck, but in others I might very well say "too bad, you didn't protect your hand." It's always going to depend on what the dealer tells me (first off) and possibly what the players have to say as well. al
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#55
10-17-2005, 07:13 PM
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Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
[ QUOTE ]
He would have been gone way before that but the floor/shift manager never knew what was going on. [/ QUOTE ] This is why it's so important for dealers to keep their floorperson informed of potential problem players, situations brewing, etc etc. There are NO cardrooms where there is one floor per table. Thus, it's IMPOSSIBLE for one floor to watch every table all the time. But what's probably a much more accurate statement is that often times the floor is stretched mighty thin - sometimes there's only one floor for a multi-table room, and the floor's the one with the keys to the cash, thus they wind up cashiering a fair amount of the time (this sucks BTW). What you wind up with here is a situation where the floor is relying on their dealers to keep on top of things, and keep them informed of potential problems. Things can still run well, but the dealers have to do their part here and not just be mindless drones. al
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#57
10-18-2005, 06:01 AM
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Re: My decision
If a dealer takes seat 1 or 9's unprotected aces then they should be retrievable because clearly he or she had every intention on playing them. Player A's situation could have been avoided had he held onto his cards until player B clearly folded. I just do not see why the floor has to make subjective decisions when people can and should learn to protect their hand until the dealer trades the pot for your cards.
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#58
10-18-2005, 06:27 AM
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Re: My decision
[ QUOTE ]
I just do not see why the floor has to make subjective decisions when people can and should learn to protect their hand until the dealer trades the pot for your cards. [/ QUOTE ] you don't see why? you truly don't? it's for the good of the game. it's pretty clear to me. think about it.
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#59
10-18-2005, 06:42 AM
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Re: My decision
Why don't you stop being a smartass and try thinking about how it could hurt the game. It can open up the game to even more angle shooting and confusion. Does the floor exist to make sure the rules are being enforced or to decide what a player's intentions are?
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#60
10-18-2005, 06:47 AM
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Re: My decision
[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you stop being a smartass and try thinking about how it could hurt the game. It can open up the game to even more angle shooting and confusion. Does the floor exist to make sure the rules are being enforced or to decide what a player's intentions are? [/ QUOTE ] please go back and reread my post. i suggested that you think about it. from your reply, it's clear you have not done so. have a nice day! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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