80/160 hand against J.A. Sucker

[J.A.Sucker]

I probably would have bet an A on the river here, actually. I don't know if I would have called a c/r. However, if I fanned out, I may take a chance to bluff this "good" card. I do like the checkraise here. I also really like the way he played the rest of the hand. People wanting to play a big pot with no pair against me on this board should get their heads examined.

[J.A.Sucker]

You are exactly correct, I didn't even have to post my earlier response.

[J.A.Sucker]

Getting three bets on this river means it's going to 4. That is a bad spot for AQ.

[J.A.Sucker]

I don't give action - I get it. The pot was just about the right size here.

[J.A.Sucker]

I think you played the hand great, until the river, for the reasons that I stated before. Another option is to 3 bet PF, and lead it out. That will win you lots of small pots, and that's good. A river checkraise would have been expert there, for sure. Going ape on the flop just sets you up to be sick on the turn.

FWIW, I had Ah4d, for flopped wheel gutter, backdoor nut flush draw, and an A. I probably was betting the river, since I thought I might get a call from a medium pair. If I didn't have much of a showdown hand, this card is a good bluff card, and checkraising gives me that chance. If he checkraises and gets 3 bet by me, he's in trouble, but them's the breaks.

As for my range of hands preflop, it's simple: all of 'em.

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
Hm...I simply can't see why Sucker (or anyone) would check the river with an ace.

To Recap:

Flop: 522

Action ends with Sucker's 3 bet.

Turn: Off suit Ten. check check

River: ace

OP checks. Why in the world would Sucker check with an Ace?

I don't get it.

I suppose the argument is that given how Sucker played the hand, he can't expect to get called by a worse hand (because the first hand that OP will put Sucker on when Sucker checks the turn is Ax.). But that then means that Sucker should also know that OP is a good player. OP may very well be a good player but Sucker can't know that since apparently they have not played each other very much.

Even the "I am up against a good player" argument shoudn't dissuade a bet from Sucker. Sucker was in a steal position preflop. Actually, he posted and then raised which guys tend to do with any two cards. He could have a flush draw, straight draw, Queen high or whatever. An Ace is not the only holding he can have when he checks he turn and bets the river (although it is prolly the most common holding given this pattern). So, it is not out of the question for someone in OP's shoes to look up Sucker with as little as King high in this spot.

Also, another reason for OP to check his Ace on the river is that it gives Sucker an opportunity to bluff.

Ray, we need some elaboration here, please.

BTW, I never made it out to the River Rock during the tourney. Apparently, you were there. I am sorry I missed you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to relpy with something similar but you pretty much said it all. Fianch didnt so anything in this hand to give Sucker a good reason to check an ace behind on the river. There really isnt anything Ray or anyone else could say to make me believe otherwise.

[golferbrent]

The decision has to be made whether you want to make the pot big and do whatever it takes to take it down... or keep it small until you make a hand/or call down UI.

I don't necessarily think that a 4 bet is the absolutely correct play here... but it should be an option to consider. I was just asking if he considered all available options or if once he was 3 bet on flop... did he go into passive call down mode?

As far as your ability to raise the turn with nothing here... I would fully expect you to do that. You are in the mode of trying to do whatever it takes to take the pot down. All factors that need to be considered...

In addition, I think a lot of people have talked about the 3 bet preflop, which from an equity standpoint makes a lot of sense against your range. However, your capping range is pretty much the same range as you opened with. If you have a hand that you can open with... you have a hand you can cap with position. Which can also swell the pot preflop as well...

I thin the discussion here is really good on this hand... and all factors need to be consdiered on all streets to ensure that the hand is played properly and gives you the best chance to win.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably would have bet an A on the river here, actually. I don't know if I would have called a c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's say you wouldn't have called the c/r [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. However, you'd pop it again with a better hand the one pair of Aces. Also what you'd call with on the river and what you'd bet with are different. In this case the pot is laying you something like 6-1 for a call but if your checked to and betting for value, you're presumably doing that with at least a 55% chance that when your bet is called you're hand is best. I think this essentially is Ray's point.

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I probably would have bet an A on the river here, actually. I don't know if I would have called a c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's say you wouldn't have called the c/r [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. However, you'd pop it again with a better hand the one pair of Aces. Also what you'd call with on the river and what you'd bet with are different. In this case the pot is laying you something like 6-1 for a call but if your checked to and betting for value, you're presumably doing that with at least a 55% chance that when your bet is called you're hand is best. I think this essentially is Ray's point.

[/ QUOTE ]

But how often does Sucker have better than AQ given his turn check? It seems really unlikely.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I probably would have bet an A on the river here, actually. I don't know if I would have called a c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's say you wouldn't have called the c/r [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. However, you'd pop it again with a better hand the one pair of Aces. Also what you'd call with on the river and what you'd bet with are different. In this case the pot is laying you something like 6-1 for a call but if your checked to and betting for value, you're presumably doing that with at least a 55% chance that when your bet is called you're hand is best. I think this essentially is Ray's point.

[/ QUOTE ]

But how often does Sucker have better than AQ given his turn check? It seems really unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not too often methinks. Ok sucker how would you have played monster if you flopped one in this situation [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

I will say though that I doubt if hero checks the turn with a pair though.