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#51
10-19-2005, 06:54 PM
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Re: Racism in the NBA and NFL
[ QUOTE ]
How does forcing black athletes to abandon their personal and cultural sense of fashion make the product BETTER? [/ QUOTE ] Why do you think they have a right to express anything about themselves at work? Let's face it - this is about the clothes they wear while they are at work. The clothes they wear to the arena, during the game if they're on the bench, and after the game in interviews. Everyone with a job, and a boss, has certain clothing they have to wear to work. Why should they be different? The reason their clothing offends people isn't racism (at least 99% of people). It's not young black people expressing themselves that turns people off the NBA. It's the massive egos that scream to everyone around "I am an NBA star. I can do whatever I want. I don't have to listen to the rules." Refusing to follow a simple (and very lenient) dress code is an example of this, and it's very childish. As an example, the NHL requires players to wear a suit & tie to all games, and for all team travel. The dress code won't make the product better. But it might turn down some of the rampant egos, and make the stars more palatable to the general public. Stars are what sells a sport, and that's what makes these guys rich. 
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#53
10-19-2005, 06:57 PM
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Re: Racism in the NBA and NFL
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if you are an 18 year old kid in the NBA, you have a contract and an obligation to your team to play and travel 3-4 times a week, from september until june. you have ZERO opportunity to finish school or go to college. [/ QUOTE ] And if you are 18 years old, in this country, you are a legal adult, who has the RIGHT to make those decisions for yourself...not to have them made for you. It is not the NBA's or NFL's job to make sure that young adults go to school. It is their job to not discriminate on the basis of age...and it is their job to not tacitly promote a system of indentured servitude for young, primarily-black athletes by forcing them into a system that some of them do not want and some of them are not equipped for.
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#54
10-19-2005, 07:00 PM
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Re: Racism in the NBA and NFL
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It is their job to not discriminate on the basis of age...and it is their job to not tacitly promote a system of indentured servitude for young, primarily-black athletes by forcing them into a system that some of them do not want and some of them are not equipped for. [/ QUOTE ] No, actually it is their job to turn a profit by providing entertainment for the public.
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#55
10-19-2005, 07:06 PM
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Re: Racism in the NBA and NFL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How does forcing black athletes to abandon their personal and cultural sense of fashion make the product BETTER? [/ QUOTE ] Why do you think they have a right to express anything about themselves at work? Let's face it - this is about the clothes they wear while they are at work. The clothes they wear to the arena, during the game if they're on the bench, and after the game in interviews. Everyone with a job, and a boss, has certain clothing they have to wear to work. Why should they be different? The reason their clothing offends people isn't racism (at least 99% of people). It's not young black people expressing themselves that turns people off the NBA. It's the massive egos that scream to everyone around "I am an NBA star. I can do whatever I want. I don't have to listen to the rules." Refusing to follow a simple (and very lenient) dress code is an example of this, and it's very childish. As an example, the NHL requires players to wear a suit & tie to all games, and for all team travel. The dress code won't make the product better. But it might turn down some of the rampant egos, and make the stars more palatable to the general public. Stars are what sells a sport, and that's what makes these guys rich. [/ QUOTE ] Read the question...it's not about a right to express yourself at work. I'm asking a more fundamental question than that. I'm asking why "acceptable" has to be defined by "whatever white people wear." I'm asking what is intrinsically, fundamentally more valuable about polo shirts than throwback jerseys. And I'm not talking about a following of the rules -- I'm not talking about NBA players BREAKING the dress code...I'm challenging why the dress code is there in the first place. I'm also challenging why that dress code is aimed at black athletes? Why not a hair-length requirement to make Steve Nash look more "corporate?" Because white America doesn't care about the league looking more corporate, they care about the league looking less black. You're failing to respond to the Damon/McMahon segment of my argument...which IMHO is because it can't be responded to adequately without conceding a racist element in the rule. There simply isn't a good reason why white edginess is tolerated while black edginess is not. Oh, and if you think ego harms sales...you obviously have not been paying attention to Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson, Allen Iverson, every boxer, Michael Irvin, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, etc. So if your reasoning for the dress code is, "make 'em wear 'traditional' clothes and their egos will be lower," I'd first of all say I doubt it. And I'd second of all say, lower egos do not equal higher sales.
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#56
10-19-2005, 07:08 PM
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Re: Racism in the NBA and NFL
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No, actually it is their job to turn a profit by providing entertainment for the public. [/ QUOTE ] ...while not arbitrarily discriminating along the way, same as any other business. Non-discrimination is part of the job for every business venture.
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#58
10-19-2005, 08:08 PM
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Re: Racism in the NBA and NFL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How does forcing black athletes to abandon their personal and cultural sense of fashion make the product BETTER? [/ QUOTE ] Why do you think they have a right to express anything about themselves at work? Let's face it - this is about the clothes they wear while they are at work. The clothes they wear to the arena, during the game if they're on the bench, and after the game in interviews. Everyone with a job, and a boss, has certain clothing they have to wear to work. Why should they be different? The reason their clothing offends people isn't racism (at least 99% of people). It's not young black people expressing themselves that turns people off the NBA. It's the massive egos that scream to everyone around "I am an NBA star. I can do whatever I want. I don't have to listen to the rules." Refusing to follow a simple (and very lenient) dress code is an example of this, and it's very childish. As an example, the NHL requires players to wear a suit & tie to all games, and for all team travel. The dress code won't make the product better. But it might turn down some of the rampant egos, and make the stars more palatable to the general public. Stars are what sells a sport, and that's what makes these guys rich. [/ QUOTE ] Read the question...it's not about a right to express yourself at work. I'm asking a more fundamental question than that. I'm asking why "acceptable" has to be defined by "whatever white people wear." I'm asking what is intrinsically, fundamentally more valuable about polo shirts than throwback jerseys. And I'm not talking about a following of the rules -- I'm not talking about NBA players BREAKING the dress code...I'm challenging why the dress code is there in the first place. I'm also challenging why that dress code is aimed at black athletes? Why not a hair-length requirement to make Steve Nash look more "corporate?" Because white America doesn't care about the league looking more corporate, they care about the league looking less black. You're failing to respond to the Damon/McMahon segment of my argument...which IMHO is because it can't be responded to adequately without conceding a racist element in the rule. There simply isn't a good reason why white edginess is tolerated while black edginess is not. Oh, and if you think ego harms sales...you obviously have not been paying attention to Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson, Allen Iverson, every boxer, Michael Irvin, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, etc. So if your reasoning for the dress code is, "make 'em wear 'traditional' clothes and their egos will be lower," I'd first of all say I doubt it. And I'd second of all say, lower egos do not equal higher sales. [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand what you're saying... they've put in a dress code for all their players. A similar dress code to ANY work environment for professionals, which these people are. This is not about making the league look more "corporate". It's about making them look like adults who dress nicely for work. Long hair has nothing to do with it. There's no rules against the players having long hair or earrings, which is why your Damon analogy is flawed. The league obviously feels like hair length & tasteful jewellry is not an issue. The dress code is not aimed at black athletes. It applies to every player in the league. The league made a point of specifically banning certain types of clothing that have become popular among players. Since most players in the league are black, those articles of clothing are things that are a popular fashion among the black athletes. And if you think the NBA stars massive egos & childish antics do NOT hurt business, I suggest you listen to all the people who no longer follow basketball because of that. There are a lot of them, and it is hurting the business.
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#59
10-19-2005, 08:37 PM
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Re: Racism in the NBA and NFL
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ut before and after the games, we want to impose a dress code that forces them to look like corporate white America? WHY??? You MUST wear a jersey during the game, and you're FORBIDDEN from wearing jerseys before and after games. This simply doesn't make sense. Basketball players AREN'T lawyers or accountants or doctors or CEO's. They're guys who play sports for a living...and many of them are a heavy influence on black culture, some of which DOESN'T value a coat and tie as highly as stuffy white people do (just as some segments of white America, like me, don't value it either...part of why I became a gambler and a musician...to ESCAPE that sort of treatment). [/ QUOTE ] What makes you think all Doctors want to dress up. Or that Corporate America is all white. I have had several bosses who were not white and proper dress was equally important to them. [ QUOTE ] These are very valid points. I only refer you to mine and others reasoning for why serious minor-league systems need to be in place...and also to a previous argument I've made about each individual having the right to be judged by the job market available based on his skills. [/ QUOTE ] The NBA is not a monopoly. Why doesn't some other company start a league and hire players straight out of high school and sign them to long term deals? Or, if minor leagues are the answer why doesn't some other company start up a minor league of basketball that will pay prospects until they are old enough for the NBA? I think what you will end up seeing is shoe companies doing this. Some type of travelling streetball type minor league for NBA ready players who don't want to go to college. Anyway, my employer tells me what to wear to meetings and company functions. It is not always what I want to wear. That's part of life.
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#60
10-19-2005, 09:38 PM
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Re: Racism in the NBA and NFL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No, actually it is their job to turn a profit by providing entertainment for the public. [/ QUOTE ] ...while not arbitrarily discriminating along the way, same as any other business. Non-discrimination is part of the job for every business venture. [/ QUOTE ] They aren't discriminating any more then any other job that requires a college degree and business casual dress... In fact I'm pretty sure the NFL has had a similar dress code for many years, although I could be mistaken about that. I'm pretty sure baseball players have to wear a sportcoat.
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