Chasing flush draws

[Benoit]

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This is just for my sake.

We all agree that there are potentially 15 clean outs. I think this is a mistake to assume. I think it's likely the Ace is dead. It's also likely that I've lost some hearts to some of the other hands that have folded, or are in any of the players cards still in the hand.

There were 20 cards dealt, and the flop makes 23. 14 of those cards no longer "exist." 4 hearts currently exist in my hand and on the board. There are 29 cards remaining in the deck. I'm sure some book somewhere has done a rough estimation on how to calculate outs in this scenario.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

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Don't forget the card that was burned before the flop. The analysis needs to be done on the 28 remaining cards, not the 29... why hasn't someone included this discussion in any books on calculating outs.

Finally, Scuba is leading us somewhere in this calculating outs discussion. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

TM. PL. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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No, you don't count the burn cards because you do NOT see them, that's why it hasn't been in any books.

Scuba, as for subtracting hearts to a heart flush draw, the only way I'm seen that is when playing games like 7-card stud.

[papa_georgio]

I think it is a dangerous call. It would cost you most of your chips to call, and what if your flush never comes. If he didn't go all in I would definately call. but don't listen to me, lately I've been a losing player so my advice is probably dead wrong.