Beating the Party 10+1, Part 2

[memphis_aces]

Hey DJ...its icon from over at FBGs...how are ya doing!

I've been on a pretty good run lately with SNGs, winning 3 of 4 $5/1 and both of the $10/1 I've played in the last couple days....and most of it is due to short-stacked and late round play.

The best advice I've pulled from this thread was that once you're in the money (top 3), go for first. Have it in your mind that you can win this tournament (and you usually can). Play VERY aggressively....steal blinds often with any decent hand and almost always reraise when raised (again, with any decent hand). It's AMAZING how most folks at Party seem to play like total sheep once it gets down to the final three. They play not to lose rather than to win.

Regarding your actual question...short stacked play....I happen to enjoy it. When I get down to around 300-400 chips at a Party tournament (and I do so about 30% of the tourneys I play in)....I'll tend to go all in with any decent hand. Be careful with this...make sure you're not going into a pot with too many callers (or potential callers).....and be careful when you have the chipleader still yet to call.

It varies a little based on how early/late in the tournament it is, as well. Earlier in the tournament (when blinds are 50/100 or less) you should just wait it out for a few laps...wait for a monster. Later in the tourney is when the desperate all-in or 3xBB Blind-steal is required (and more effective).

I'm at work so this likely rambles a bit....but hopefully you get the idea....

[sourbeaver]

Hi all,

I've been trying the strategy outlined in this thread for a couple
SNGs.

Obviously I have made some slight adjustements to better suit my style but nothing to disrupt results on a somewhat long basis.

The main problems I encountered were:

1. Not getting the hands to play, getting short-stacked
and having to push in with less-than-premium hands before
getting blinded out.

2. Since the strategy involves aggressive raising with
good hands, I find that if I get beat on 1 or 2 good hands in the 5-6 level, my stack becomes quite handicapped.

And so I am lead to believe that there is more luck involved in following a strategy that demands great hands (perhaps too tight), and demands that those few great hands stand against opposition, which they don't quite a few times. I find that we don't get to see many hands in a typical SNG when making it to the top 4.

This is not as much criticism as it is some thoughts I gathered while trying the strategy in 10$ SNGs.

I realise this has been pointed out earlier, I just thought I would say that this has been my experience as well.

It is important to point out that I play at UB, where the structure is not similar to that of Party's.
Perhaps ny requirements could be loosened up to adjust for longer levels/bigger starting stack.

Any comments would be welcome.
Thanks

[Keres]

I think the advice is on the little conservative side but this is the type of thing I'd print out and give to somebody who asked how to play the party $10sng.

In the first round - blinds of 10/15 - I'll play very loose. Hands like 6-7 suited from mid to late position. If the table is very passive I'll even play it from utg if I don't think a raise is likely. The object here is to hit a monster and grab a big pot or maybe take somebody out. At the Party 10SNG there are almost always 2 or 3 players who will make horrendous plays and get knocked out before the first round is over. They'll call an all in with Q-10 on a board of 10-6-6. Obviously don't play crap (Q-8o etc) but if you've got a hand with some potential its almost always worth playing. Once the blinds go up to 15/30 I tighten up considerably.

For this reason if you've got a hand like AK, you want to raise to 55-60. I'm not going to stick around with a speculative hand for that amount. A minraise to 30, I'll definitely stay put now that I know you're excited about your hand and know that if I hit the flop hard there's a good chance you're going to get busted - a lot of 10SNG players get too attached to their hands.

[colpres]

I’ve been playing 10 months. This is my first post, inspired by this thread to join the Forum. Armed with the guide, last evening I played 4 tournaments on Party:
1. Finish 5th: busted out in 4th Round, QQ all-in, get 2 callers, J-10-4-10-6, winner holds 10-3s (chat quote from winner: “Going for the flush, hit 3 10’s…Guess I was lucky”)
2. Finish 4th: by 5th round, when forced all-in, I have 350 chips to 3400, 2200, & 2050. AA in 3rd round in SB, all folded to me, won 200 total from BB
3. Finish 6th: lose half of stack when KK all-in, board comes K-7c-A-Qc-4c, opponent AJclubs wins w/flush, busted w/ QQ all-in when called by A-6o and A comes on turn
4. Finish 2nd: Only notable hand was 3rd round, my AKs all-in called by QJs in same suit, neither hand improves. Note no pair in this entire tournament.

The listed big pairs (QQ-lose, AA-win, KK-lose, QQ-lose) are the ONLY pairs I had, with 180+ hands played, so no decisions on small pair play. I also had AK twice, AQ once, AJ twice, and one KQs. Played for 1 draw – from BB, nut flush and gut-shot straight draw, but missed both. No other hand met the guide requirements in 4 tournaments. Averaged seeing 15% of flops, so I was in line w/ the guide estimate. However, getting free plays from BB with hands like J3o with 5 limpers increased flops seen. I was dealt 9-5 11 times!

I know it’s not much information, but did I misunderstand the guide recommendations? Is 1 for 4 in the money within expectations? Is this performance from bad decisions or bad cards? Getting 1 pair per 45 hands, or 10 recommended hands from 180 dealt, can you win a Sit and Go at this level with this strategy? (or any strategy?) I’ll be trying it at least six more times per the advice to try it 10 times, so feedback is welcome.

[sourbeaver]

I enjoyed reading your post and it does refer to my earlier discussion quite a bit. I find that we simply do not get to see enough of these good hands (as per the guide's terms) to play. Result is we don't get involved into enough hands to increase our stack, plus the risk of getting busted on the one hand we do choose to play is still high (keeping in mind that low buy-in SNGs will have some inexperienced players calling with mediocre hands). I believe the key resides in playing a bit looser in the first 2 or 3 rounds and try to flop a hand. There's really not many other ways around this. Let's not forget that more experienced players can "play" the flop and play the other players also, which adds to the stack.

Still, I don't know how I feel when I go bust holding QQ KK or AK (even AA sometimes). I know we're supposed to feel good when we bust out if we got in the pot with the best of it, but there are just so many bad calls that eat away at our probability of winning the hand, that it gets hard to take. Other times I find that the one or two good hands I get, I'll raise properly and get no calls, so I sit there with 100-200 more chips, having "wasted" that one big hand I'll get in the tourney. It's all a matter of getting in the top 3 with a respectable stack, but I find that's quite the hardest part, because I think my HU, 3-player play is good enough to get me some wins.

[Eder]

The type of SnG player I enjoy most at my table are the ones playing lots of speculative hands early. Either they get lucky and triple up and I get their chips later because most of them continue to play loose, or they don't hit and get even more aggresive the shorter their stack gets and I get the remainer of their chips sooner.

Of course better players play these speculative hands early as well , but theres not many good players in the $10 SnG's, and they'd normally beat me playing any two.

jmo

[colpres]

Updating the results, after going 0 for 3 with the guide, have now placed 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd for 6 money finishes in 9 tries. Thanks to all the contributors to this thread! By the way, one game I got zero pairs, no AK, AQ, or AJ, won only 3 hands in 71, but finished 3rd. Amazing.

[Scuba Chuck]

Aleomagus & company. Great thread. Learned as much here as I have anywhere on this site. Specifically, I now understand the meaning of "TIGHT." And also how to make a little cash.

Now that I've used these 'rules of thumb' with success, could you talk a little about some of the variance? Specifically, I am playing at Absolute Poker, and I am beginning to notice that the same players are consistently playing with large stacks early on. Is there anything going on there I should know about?

Thanks,

PS, if not, I am still comfortable taking their large stakes later in the game when it matters more.

[housenuts]

the reason they probably have large stacks is because they are "gamblers". you either see them with large stacks or you don't see them at all because they busted out. they will risk all their money early on on a coin flip.

[mart_ph]

[ QUOTE ]
Other times I find that the one or two good hands I get, I'll raise properly and get no calls, so I sit there with 100-200 more chips, having "wasted" that one big hand I'll get in the tourney.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more with this. I've been sticking religiously to this strategy for about 39 sng's now. Admittedly mostly $5 on Paradise and not Party, but I think it suits better at Paradise as you start with 1000t.

Anyway, the main problem is definitely if you don't get any decent cards in the first few rounds, when you do raise every other player folds cuz they're so scared. But then you run the risk of someone hitting the flop with something like A4o if you're holding KK and you just limp in!!! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

For the last 39 I've been ITM 54% and ROI is 47% - with 6 wins, 9 second place and 6 third places.. with 7 on bubble.
I've also only finished in the places in 3 of the last 11 I've played.
So all in all, I spose I've got nothing to complain about.

The only hands I'm considering loosening up on are Axs within all rounds if I can get in late and cheap.

The other main problem is concentration. By playing so few hands I get distracted easily - even though I spend the time making notes on players. I think I may start playing 2 tables to force myself to pay attention more, before moving up to the $10 tables.