Al Schoonmaker

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the big deal, I got differences of opinion with someone.

[/ QUOTE ]
The big deal is when you take your difference of opinion and turn it into a personal attack. No bueno.

[slavic]

Schoonmaker is pompous and very judgemental on other people.

Can I ask how this is just a difference of opinion?

Al's book is an examination of certain poker player types that have many universal commonalities to players you see everyday. You then insult him for not being a poker expert. Well Al is up front about it, he's not an expert and he says it in his book. Up front in the book. Really early on. In bold print. With an exclamation point.

[morgant]

my friend makes a pretty healthy living playing lacrosse.

[Al Schoonmaker]

You wrote: "But wouldn't this forum be boring if we just commended them and sang their praises all the time?"

I agree.

You wrote: "It's remarkable how you guys get all riled up over this post."

While I'm delighted that so many people have supported me, I am not "riled up." This is a public forum, and I hope you and others continue to feel free to criticize me or any other 2+2 author without being personally attacked for it.

Your post was NOT that bad or personal. You don't like my book, and some other people feel the same way. Anyone who can't take criticism shouldn't write.

I hope you continue to post here.

Regards,

Al

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
If I took writing lessons from David Sklansky, I might get an "A" with my English teacher. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

Holy crap that's the funniest thing I've ever read on these forums. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[CEO]

I believe that for nearly everyone, choosing poker as a way of earning a living is probably the wrong choice. In the end, poker is a zero sum game, you can only win by making someone else lose. By definition that limits the amount the parties can win. For example, during my +30 years of playing poker I have come across countless really talented, intelligent, driven people. TIme and time again, I have watched these people go broke, have health situations which wiped them out, martial problems, the list goes on and on. In business I have see many less talented people succeed to very high degrees of success and making themselves, wealthy through investments, 401K Plans, options, retirements, owning their own businesses, etc. In my own case, I am at least 100x wealther than I would have been, even if I would have won several world-championships.

The point is: Poker just doesn't pay very well. Many other skills pay much more, and reward more than poker. I always cringe when I see highly intelligent people choose poker over a more traditional type opportunity.

Not everyone in business sits in a cubical. In fact those that make the most do so by being creative, analytical, inspirational or in some other way making either their business better, or able to assemble the correct people in order to make this happen.

Take it from me, I've done both, and poker is a great hobby, but a chumps way to earn a living.

It is ironic how sometimes talented young players will laugh at a successful doctor or lawyer or businesperson who seems to throw away their money on poker. Actually, many times the amount these people gamble is meaningless to them with their financial condition, so they do it for amusement.

Really it should be these people laughing at the "professional players" who sit for hours and hours to pick up a few of their droppings while they have a good time. It's more often the "pro" that has the ruined life, not the so-called loser

[CrisBrown]

Hi All,

I've sat out this thread because, frankly, when it was naught but a flame-fest, there was no point. But now that it has calmed a bit....

Is poker a good career? Not for most people. Then again, writing novels (my profession) is not a good career for most people either. I suspect these two careers have quite a lot in common. Both require an abundance of self-discipline, emotional fortitude, and financial management savvy, in addition to the basic skills of the profession itself. The vast majority of those who try will fail; only about 1 in 10,000 would-be writers will ever make a living at it. I suspect the numbers are about the same for would-be poker players.

I'm sometimes asked to speak to would-be writers groups, and I always give the same advice: (1) apply butt to chair and write; (2) learn to accept criticism; (3) learn your craft; and, most importantly, (4) don't quit your day job.

I tell them that being a novelist is neither glamorous nor exciting. It's a job, like any other job. You can't wait for the Muse; deadlines are a constant pressure. And you can forget about writing a book every year or two, at least if you want to make a living. Try four books a year. That is 400,000 words of publishable prose, plus synopses, plus rewrites. Two years ago, my writing partner and I took our first vacation ... in eight years.

But we're getting ahead of ourselves. First you have to finish a book. In the evenings. When you're dead tired from working all day, and a family is wanting your time, and the phone is ringing, and the laundry is in the dryer. Somewhere in there, you have to make time for the rest of your life. Or you can just get divorced, have a nervous breakdown, and spend a week in the hospital explaining why you can't stop crying. (Hint: I suggest making time for the rest of your life. It's cheaper than the divorce, and the hospital.)

Then, when you've finally finished your magnum opus, you send it off to publishers. And you begin collecting your rejection slips. Plural. You wonder why those morons can't see the obvious brilliance of your literary genius. Finally, some painfully honest friend tugs at your sleeve and whispers "Ummm, I tried to read your book, but I've got to say ... it was ... um ... well ... boring." If you have half a brain, you ask your friend why it was boring, and you listen, and agree. (It's good practice. Someday you might get more than a form rejection letter, and the editor who writes that letter won't be as gentle as your friend.)

Well, after two or three or four or five or twelve failed books, you finally get an editor who says "We're interested in this project, but we will need extensive changes." You curse and scream and cry and crumple the letter up into a tiny ball and throw it in the garbage and, just to make a point, dump a pot of coffee grounds on it.

Then after you've screamed yourself hoarse and soaked your pillow with bitter tears and had your little hissy, late at night, you creep downstairs and pull the crumpled letter out of the trash can. You smooth it out, brush off the coffee grounds, and decide that you'll have to sacrifice your ego and rewrite your masterpiece to someone else's specifications. And you bite the bullet and get back to work. A couple of months later, you cross your fingers and mail it back to the editor, and spend the next two months pacing the floors and running to the mailbox.

And the telephone rings, and the editor says "We like it. We'll pay you six thousand dollars for it."

SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS????????? WHAT???????????? A YEAR OF MY LIFE AND YOU'RE ONLY GOING TO PAY ME SIX THOUSAND LOUSY DOLLARS????????

"Oh, and we're changing the title."

OH SURE, JUST RENAME MY KIDS WHILE YOU'RE AT IT!!!!!

(No, the author doesn't decide on the title. That's the publisher's decision, and it's made by the sales staff.)

So then you write another book, with a deadline this time. And another. And another. And another. And, if you keep selling, and your retail numbers are good, and you finally get a solid multi-book contract ...

... THEN you can consider quitting your day job and trying to make a living solely as a writer. Learn to enjoy rice and beans for awhile, because you aren't going to be making a big income anytime soon. My partner and I had been writing full-time -- four and sometimes five books a year -- for seven years before we got our first six-figure contract.

If this sounds too bleak to even consider, then you're not cut out to be a novelist. Sorry.

I suspect most professional poker players would tell a very similar story about their career paths. The details would be different, of course, but I'd bet the emotional content would be just about the same. A lot of hard work, over a long time, with a lot of disappointment, heartbreak, and very lean living along the way.

Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think so.

Cris

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

No, the author doesn't decide on the title.

Sometimes, this is a good thing. e.g., "Atlas Shrugged" is a much better title than "The Strike."

(and, yes, I know the change was not by a publisher)

[Al_Capone_Junior]

As a current "pro" player, I can't wait to get back into a REAL JOB! I have two very nice business opportunities working right now and can't wait to go back to being a part-time pro, who mostly plays for enjoyment, and a little for supplemental income.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]