Split the NL forums again?

[bkholdem]

What are the various nl stakes?
.01/.02
.05/.10
.10/.20
.15/.25
.25/.50
.50/1
1/2
2/4
3/6
5/10
10/20
10/25
25/50
50/100
100/200
200/400???

The 5/10 players are whack if they consider themselves high limit lol. They have been getting a free ride in the mid/high forum, leaving the players in the few limits below them without a hand up while having the players on the few levels above them giving them coaching to help them improve.

[edge]

Ok, so if we cut out 5/10 from the high-stakes board, then we end up with 95% 10/20 hands. The people who play higher rarely post hands, and 50/100, 100/200, 200/400 are pretty much the same thing (same player pool?).

[soah]

Your analysis is faulty because it does not consider the quantity of players playing at each level, or the point at which the quality of the players begins to change. How often do you see games above 50/100 running? And why should 10/20 and 10/25 be counted separately? I really don't care too much whether 5/10 is considered Mid or High, but your arguments are completely absurd.

Essentially I can see three stages in development of a player:

They start out clueless playing in Small stakes. In order to beat their clueless opponents, they must learn "ABC" poker. They learn to fold marginal hands, they wait for big hands, and they take money from people who can't fold marginal hands. The small stakes games consist of ABC players preying on clueless players.

Once the ABC players start winning, they move up in stakes. Eventually they reach games that don't contain the completely clueless players. In fact, most of their opponents play ABC poker and have also moved up from the small stakes. If these players just wait for big hands, they will just break even and trade their money back and forth. So they work on strategies to exploit ABC players. Semi-bluffs and bluffs become more effective (since their opponents can fold marginal hands), and meta-game starts to matter. The mid stakes games consist of thinking players preying on ABC players.

Eventually the winners at the mid stakes games move up to a level where they can't find the straightforward ABC players. Their opponents are tricky and thinking. Now it's time to adjust strategies again. The winners at the High stakes games are the ones that are capable of beating the thinking players.

So far I haven't seen anyone give a reason for *why* they think the current setup is fine (and unless I've missed something, none of the people saying that are actually playing in the proposed Mid stakes range). My arguments for splitting the forum are a combination of what I've written above, in conjunction with the fact that the two NL forums are becoming increasingly busy. If you believe either of those reasons is flawed, could you please explain why?

[JaBlue]

I agree that 5/10 is not high stakes, but advice that is suitable for that game cannot be found in SSNL. The mid forum could probably consist of 2-4 -> 5/10 in my opinion

[evil_twin]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that 5/10 is not high stakes, but advice that is suitable for that game cannot be found in SSNL. The mid forum could probably consist of 2-4 -> 5/10 in my opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I play 3-6 and 5-10, and sometimes a bit of 2-4. Posting 2-4 hands in small stakes doesn't seem right, nor does posting my 3-6 hands in this forum. A middle ground seems sane to me, 10-20 and above are a very different game to the one I play.

[Ulysses]

As far as this forum is concerned, 100/200 and 200/400 can effectively be ignored.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
As far as this forum is concerned, 100/200 and 200/400 can effectively be ignored.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, i'll start posting my hu 100/200 hands guys

[Hattifnatt]

[ QUOTE ]
Small NL: .5/1 and lower (and 1/2 live games?)
Mid NL: 1/2 - 3/6
High NL: 5/10 and above

[/ QUOTE ]
This sounds great... I am often sort of lost in the high stakes forum but on the 0.5/1 and lower hands in the small stakes forum I have not much of an interest.

[Marlow]

So how does this sort of thing come to pass? Do we sign a petition or sumpin'?

[bkholdem]

The need for further seperation of forums is evident in a post I read in the small stakes forum a little while back. Maybe someone remembers and can post a link(S).

A high stakes player was/is trying to 'give back' by helping low limit players. He posted some idea's and indicated that he would post different ideas from time to time toward this end.

Well, as I'm reading the thread I'm seeing low limit players posting ABC replies as to why they disagree with what he is saying or saying things like "that is standard." While everything he posted might not have been revolutionary to all of the readers, him taking the time to post in the low stakes was admirable IMO and should have been met with thanks and praise.

If there was a mid stakes forum, as there most certainly should be, for players beyond basic, rigid starting hand theory, ABC poker and defensive/weak-tight strategies, his presence would have been received much differently, IMO. It was as if the players were clueless IMO, trying to show each other they are good players by posting 'this is standard' while they were oblivious to the potential this poster could bring to the board. They were so caught up in their abc stuff that they were conveying a certain amount of distain to this poster, imo.

His posts would most certainly be welcome, and appreciated, in a mid stakes forum. His presence and value was above the heads of the average posters in the small stakes forum.

I think it was soah who posted the reasoning behind why there needs to be separation of the forums and do not understand how anyone could pick apart his reasoning to demonstrate why it doesn't make sense. I could care less where 5/10 players post, that isn't the point. But right now there is NO BRIDGE from small stakes ABC no limit to higher levels of no limit poker. In a place as big and as highly respected as 2+2 this doesn't make sense to me.

I think there is a clear need for separation. If 90%+ of the separation takes place by dividing the small stakes into small and mid, or micro/small/mid that is fine with me. Maybe this is better suited to the small stakes forum.
If it is, maybe someone in this forum could provide some direction as to how players in the transition phase from ABC to well rounded player could go about facilitating further division of the forums.