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#41
10-28-2005, 09:09 PM
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Re: Let’s take a few minutes on the couch.
Nope. No points.
Firstly, there was no "logical argument" made anywhere in the text you quoted. Secondly, the distinction between agnosticism and atheism, and the respective definitions of each, as used or misused commonly, is a topic that's already been addressed ad nasuem and I have no interest in rehashing it. Thirdly, whatever your opinion is on agnosticism vs. atheism, it is completely tangential to the point of this thread. It is enough for this thread that *I* find a meaningful distinction, and thus can use this personal anecdote as an example of a situation where I realized and then disregarded my own psychological bias in an argument. 
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#43
10-28-2005, 09:17 PM
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Re: Let’s take a few minutes on the couch.
[ QUOTE ]
Firstly, there was no "logical argument" made anywhere in the text you quoted. [/ QUOTE ] I have no idea whether you are talking about me or yourself or Asimov. Suffice to say, you credited Asimov with making a logical argument when it is manifestly clear that he was making a rhetorical one. [ QUOTE ] It is enough for this thread that *I* find a meaningful distinction, and thus can use this personal anecdote as an example of a situation where I realized and then disregarded my own psychological bias in an argument. [/ QUOTE ] You only disregarded it in the sense that you became open to a looser definition of 'atheism.' But your position hasn't shifted epsilon. You still feel the same way about people who say "There is absolutely no god." Or at least you should.
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#44
10-28-2005, 09:20 PM
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Re: Let’s take a few minutes on the couch.
Was it the pithiness, the sarcasm, or the self deprecation that won you over?
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#45
10-28-2005, 09:29 PM
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Re: Let’s take a few minutes on the couch.
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone else noticed some of the bitterness some Atheists have with Religion? This seems to be the case with many former Christians. It seems something happened to them; whether it was their mother force-feeding Religion to them or perhaps some nun in kindergarten cracked their hands with a ruler. Anyway, it seems someone did some damage along the way. The cause is by someone, not Religion, per se. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe similar to some good poker players being irritated by the fish. Some people get annoyed with people that think are stupid even if they benefit from the stupidity. It says something about human nature but nothing very profound. chez
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#46
10-28-2005, 09:31 PM
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Re: Let’s take a few minutes on the couch.
[ QUOTE ]
…It is this acknowledgment that allows one to get past the stage of pure metaphysical speculation, and actually make meaningful decisions about life. [/ QUOTE ] I don’t know what you mean by meaningful decisions about life. If you want to expand, fine. If not - no big deal. [ QUOTE ] You can't really try to make any justification whatsoever, otherwise you're bringing reason into play, and then your whole case breaks down. [/ QUOTE ] That is why I never try to justify my beliefs, nor do I try to reason them to others (I might explain how I decided to choose Faith, sure); especially since they are not based on reason. How can Faith be decided by Reason? [ QUOTE ] Along these lines, I also dispute your assertion that you don't try to use logic/reason along with faith as a basis of your belief. The simple statement of "faith is evidence of things unseen" (hebrews 11:1) is a logical statement. It is ridiculous, but it still attempts to make a logical implication. [/ QUOTE ] Yep, and if I were to say “I believe because the Bible tells me it is so and here is an example: Heb 11:1”, then your point has merit.
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#48
10-28-2005, 09:45 PM
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Re: Let’s take a few minutes on the couch.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Firstly, there was no "logical argument" made anywhere in the text you quoted. [/ QUOTE ] I have no idea whether you are talking about me or yourself or Asimov. Suffice to say, you credited Asimov with making a logical argument when it is manifestly clear that he was making a rhetorical one. [/ QUOTE ] I'm referring to the text of my post that you quoted in your post. Furthermore, you're the one who brought the "logical argument" description into play. I merely referred to Asimov's quote as an "argument," leaving open all the rhetorical, rational, and formally-logical aspects. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It is enough for this thread that *I* find a meaningful distinction, and thus can use this personal anecdote as an example of a situation where I realized and then disregarded my own psychological bias in an argument. [/ QUOTE ] You only disregarded it in the sense that you became open to a looser definition of 'atheism.' But your position hasn't shifted epsilon. You still feel the same way about people who say "There is absolutely no god." Or at least you should. [/ QUOTE ] As I said earlier, I don't feel like rehashing this subject. For the purposes of this thread, it suffices to say that, to me, a) there is a bigger distinction between positions (my former agnosticism vs my current atheism) than simply one of language, and b) of course I don't agree with the "absolutely no god" crowd.
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#49
10-28-2005, 10:08 PM
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Re: Let’s take a few minutes on the couch.
kid,
I disagree with your leap from anything I said to “warm and fuzzy”. I was either unclear or you read more into it. The quote “I like the concept of my Religion” was simply meant to go from point A. God/ no God (I choose God) to point B. How? What method? Now, for those who say it is ridiculous to choose God without evidence, I have no argument there. I disagree that it is ridiculous, but no more ridiculous then saying “We must save the Ozone layer.” Why? You (not necessarily you personally) choose the longevity of the human race is basically the reason to save the Ozone. But, after that there is no answer - why choose to worry about the longevity of the human race? You choose that, I’ll choose to buy a Hummer and pick up chicks with it. Almost any choice can be ridiculous to someone else. RJT
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#50
10-28-2005, 10:29 PM
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Re: Let’s take a few minutes on the couch.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="red">Has anyone else noticed some of the bitterness some Atheists have with Religion? </font> Actually I think the opposite is true. I am amazed at the patience many atheists show for believers. I wonder how much patience you would exhibit with someone who insisted to you that pixies are real? And not just any pixie, but their exact version of one! What if I told you that the best way to lead your life was according to the zodiac? There are all kinds of reasons to believe in astrology! Let's see how much patience you'll have with me while I insist to you that it is all very sensible. I know you won't dismiss my beliefs as being unintelligent. So start proving to me why astrology and pixies have no merit. [/ QUOTE ] I just don’t see much proselytizing here on the board. (I see a lot of trying to explain certain aspects of certain Religions.) Maybe I miss it or am reading from a different point of view. If there is a lot of evangelizing, can you point out a few examples? This is why I find curious the “bitterness” brought to some of the discussions
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