Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Flop II

[A_PLUS]

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Reraising is a weakly dominated action (for you game thoerists outr there)

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Even though I have a math background, I haven't studied game theory. Can you provide some additional insight on this? Tks

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I am far from an expert here. I am just getting into GT this semester.

basically, a weakly dominated action means an action (in this case reraising), where another action (calling) is at least as good as your original action, regardless of what your opponent is doing.

I think that our opponent ranges somewhere from QT (nuts), to 46o (dead) {A very tight range, I know}.

Once I throw folding out the window, I have to think about the range of hands, he makes this min reraise with, and his reaction if a 3-bet, as well as his reaction on the turn for the possible trun cards.

I think his reraising range is:
Stone bluff (lots of combos, only acts this way a small % of time)
good hand (AQ, AT, KQ. fewer combos, reacts this way a decent % of the time)
Very Good hand (AK, AJ, KJ, fewer combos, reacts like this a higher % of the time)
Winning hands {AA, KK, JJ, QT, least combos, reacts like this most of the time)

Let's take a simple route that we will see each type the same % of the time.

Bluffer- Will fold if we reraise, but he may lead the turn the 75% of the time a blank hits.
**Calling weakly domininates, reraising

Good hand- Will fold if we reraise most of the time, will sometimes lead the turn if we call

Very good hands - Most likely call a reraise, fold a small % of the time. Will lead the turn 100% of the time, a scare card does not hit.

Great hands - will call and lead the turn 100% of time

So, no matter what the BB is doing, it looks to me that calling is at least as good as reraising, and sometimes is much better.

The key is that I think that worse hands will bet the turn a large % of the time

[rwanger]

I would just call, even though I'd still think I had the best hand. Do whatever you can to make him think you are unsure about having the best hand, hoping that he'll lead on the turn. This might mean insta-calling (which is often preceived as a weak hand/draw).

If he's behind, reraising all-in might let him off the hook.

If you're behind, you might survive if he doesn't bet enough, or if the board becomes scary. (If he has JJ, a turn of Q or T will slow him waaay down, plus you still have outs.)

If you are behind, he will not fold no matter what you do, so leave it up to HIM to put YOU in. Don't put yourself in when you aren't sure if you have the best hand, because you have no Fold Equity.

[dealcloser]

I call his raise and re-evaluate on the turn. His mini-raise might be to see where we are at. Range of hands I put villan on: 22-99, KQ, KJ, K10, QJ, Q10 and Ax.

[Lloyd]

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(Which is probably not the way it's going to play out since we've got 2 more rounds coming.)

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Don't assume the hand will be played through the river. My only requirement is that I find the hand interesting and offer some value to forum members to have a lot of discussion regarding it.

[Sam T.]

Translation of his bet: "Do you have a straight or top set? Or is this flop as scary for you as it is for me?" Villain is making a post-oak bluff, trying to take control of the hand without risking his stack.

How about a re-raise less than all-in, say to 1000?

I know this flies in the face of much good advice, but I'm saying this for a couple of reasons. First, most of us have made our peace with going broke or doubling up here. So we know our chips are going in, and the only challenge is to get the villain to put his in as well. A push may fold out worse hands, and we don't want that, but a callable re-raise will get more money into the pot. Once we've tied him to the pot, we've done all we can.

I'm also assuming, based on the min-raise that the villain is...well, a donk. Maybe he's got QT, but more likely he's getting cute with a very vulnerable hand. I know getting opponents all-in on the installment plan is generally viable only at the low buy-ins, but this guy seems like he would go for it as well.

Happy to be shown where I'm wrong.

[A_PLUS]

Do you really want to take the 'betting impetus' here (search Irieguy on STT forum, worth the read).

If he is making a post oak bluff, he may call a small reraise hoping for a miracle, but then he is done. You 3-bet the flop, why would he lead the turn? Why would he call the turn unimproved? Basically you are saying that a small bet on the flop is the most you can hope for with this hand.

I think that for me at least, this is a pretty standard push. At this point, I see no reason to believe that the villain has me beat. His minraise could mean a couple of things, he's being very tricky with a set (or thinks he is w/AJ) or he has some sort of a drawing hand like QJ, A10 or KQ/K10 and he's trying to buy a check on the turn or he has an A that he isn't feeling to good about and he's trying to be sure you're not just making a standard continuation bet with an underpair.

This is the perfect time for me to end this hand and the perfect sized pot for me to be taking down with AK at this point in the tournament. There's a ton of talk about how to extract maximum value on this hand by smooth calling this, checking that or whatever. I think it's all nonsense. Anybody in their right mind who is min-raising to 'see where they're at' on this flop is done with this hand after a smooth call without improving to trips or Broadway. At this point, he either believes that he's ahead, in which case he's calling your all in right now or he doesn't, in which case the only way you get his chips in later is when you've been drawn out on and the only way he's putting more money into this pot is if he believes he's ahead now or we let him pull ahead on the turn or the river.

As far as I can tell, the only possible reason for a smooth call here is if you read him as sharing your hand or having a set that you think you can push him off of on a later street when a scare card comes and I know that I'm nowhere near that good. Does anyone really believe that if this guy is holding AQ he's putting all his chips in this pot without serious improvements after your smooth call here? Push, push, push, push, push. Think about it a little bit more and then push.

[MrMoo]

I still think opponents hand range is pretty wide. I think the flop hit him in some way but other than that, I don't want to narrow it down too much. I'm likely putting him on AJ or KJ here.

My typical play is to flat call here and let him lead the turn. After reading the comments I like Adanthar's analysis as well and I would definitely consider that approach in the future. I think both lines are very close.

I'm still willing to go broke here. My main concern is how to squeeze out as many chips as I can. If I go broke, I go broke.

I'm predicting Gigabet flat calling and a Q or T coming on the turn.

[Sam T.]

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Do you really want to take the 'betting impetus' here (search Irieguy on STT forum, worth the read).

If he is making a post oak bluff, he may call a small reraise hoping for a miracle, but then he is done. You 3-bet the flop, why would he lead the turn? Why would he call the turn unimproved? Basically you are saying that a small bet on the flop is the most you can hope for with this hand.

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I guess I'm just trying to find options other than a push here. A push will be called only by hands that have you smoked, and MAYBE AJ. (Do you really think he's playing KJ this way, and praying like hell that you're on AQ?) I do not want to fold out KJ or the gutshot draw here.

The smooth call is fine, given your position, but it can be as scary as a raise. I just wanted to put another option on the table, that's all.

[Mr_Oog]

(Before reading other responses.)
Ok,
We got what we wanted from my point of view (he took a stab at the pot). Basically I have not narrowed his range at all, and thereofre still have his range cushed.

My thinking is, are the chances of getting more chips from a crushed hand (that will not call a push) greater than the chances of him catching a miracle turn card? I think they are not and therefore push to win the pot right now (and still get called by KJ etc IMO).

Certainly if we can get him to put any more in the pot while he is behid we might stack him, but I can think of no line that will get a crushed hand (that will fold to the push) to take another stab at this pot.

-Mike