A hand vs tommy angelo

[Subfallen]

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does not strike me as "decently played", unless he somehow KNOWS that you have no piece of the board and will only put a bet in on a river bluff.

This is a part of it, yes.

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Physical tells?

[DcifrThs]

ok Josh,

I'll give this hand a real shot for you. I hope you post more as well and i hope you know my "pay tommy to tell bk what to do " was a joke.

in any case, this is very sensitive to tommy's opinion of bk's play b/c that directly determines his cold calling hands here preflop. AND what tommy thinks bk thinks of tommy.

if bk sees tommy as very tight and tommy knows this and tommy sees bk as how he normally plays and bk knows this, tommy's range here is way wider than most, i think, will give credit for due to the above considerations. BK will be very reluctant to put in bets on the bigger streets given the knowledge they share.

that being said, the fact remains the hand's crux here is tommy's action on the turn. thats where, imo, the leverage of the whole situation falls. there is a chance BK is still ahead here. Tommy CAN open light when he sees it fit and im therefore quite sure he can call light if he sees the opportunity. therefore, id like to put tommy to the test by playing his style directly against him.

id check call the turn and river. period. see what hands he cold calls you with given the above image.

make him put bets in on his own accord and give him no chance to outplay you.

allow him the opportunity to take a pot from you that he wouldn't have taken had you bet and he folded.

MAKE him use the reason he cold called to your advantage bk...thats the only way i see this hand working out.

one thing im open to, is check folding the river after check calling the turn. if you check call the turn, and he still bets the river, he must know you'll call....but thtas why i like to call, to eliminate the possiblity of being outplayed in this rare hand.

so i vote check call, check call...as bad as it MAY seem EV wise, i think image wise, it will help bk. one ANCILLARY benefit, is the info you get about his range.

one thing ive noticed about seeing hands shown down by good players in late position is that each hand you see doesn't add much to the mass of the distribution, but it SURE AS HELL adds a lot to the tails, and those less sampled parts will allow you to make much better decisions in the future.

Barron

[Josh W]

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ok Josh,

... i hope you know my "pay tommy to tell bk what to do " was a joke.

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But of course.

And I didn't mean to infer (not sure if I did infer it or not) that nobody would know what to do here. It's just that it is not nearly as easy of a position as it is vs. many others.

One other note...if a lot (like, 40% of players) start playing more Tommy-esque, I'd imagine that Tommy would change (I know I will).

Years and years ago, Tommy once posted something in the vain of "when playing in loose aggressive tables, play tighter and more passive. When playing in tighter and passive games, play looser and more aggressive".

This was true 5 years ago when games were tighter and more passive. And it's still true now when games are looser and more aggressive.

Josh

[DeeJ]

you presume to be thinking at the right level? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I'd bet here. But it could easily go either way....

[bicyclekick]

Turn and river both went check check, I said ace high, he said me too - we both turned over A8o and chopped the pot.

[Tommy Angelo]

"Turn and river both went check check, I said ace high, he said me too - we both turned over A8o and chopped the pot."

This hand had a situation in it that I used to never be in, but now that it's been happening more and more, I'm getting more and more familiar with it. The situation I'm talking about is this: I cold-call two bets preflop on the button. I call one bet on the button. On the turn, the pot is headsup, and my opponent bets out. My turn.

I try not to choose between fold, raise, and call until after my opponent is finished betting. Sometimes the cards get in the way by eliminating one or two of the options. For example, if I have the nuts, I know before he bets that I won't fold. But hey, it's the thoughtlessness that counts.

On this hand, however, I was already leaning toward raising the turn if you had bet, even before you acted, just because it was you and me and now, just to see what would happen.

Tommy

[bicyclekick]

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On this hand, however, I was already leaning toward raising the turn if you had bet, even before you acted, just because it was you and me and now, just to see what would happen.

Tommy

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I'm so glad I came to the right conclusion on the spot and saved myself both a bet and the pot.

[Sully]

Im curious.....

In your limited sample size with Tommy, what would you guess his VpIp / PFR / Aggression, etc would be?

I'm just curious, as his style is so far off many people's beaten path.

[bicyclekick]

11/6/1.5 ?

[Tommy Angelo]

"11/6/1.5 ?"

::: :::

I'm, I'm, I am so, So happy to receive this award, I just don’t know what to say. I have a list here of people I'd like to thank, some very important people in my life who made this all possible. First is my Uncle Morris. He was the first guy to cheat my out of money, I mean, that I know of, and then there's Sister Augustine, and the whole running the bingo game “for charity” thing, and then there's ...

::: :::


I was going to guess that I had an overall vpip of 30, but then, wouldn't it depend mostly on how much shorthanded I played? Let's say I played all shorthanded and that I played my button half the time. Right there I'd be at vpip of 11-ish even if I folded all other hands all the time, right?

If they had a way to tell you what an opponent's vpip was in each position, and then break it down from there as to his vpip for each number of players, now that would be some useful stuff.

(I do like eleven though as a vpip to have in the bag for tough shots.)

Tommy