Crazy thing I almost never do against a LAP

[AlwaysWrong]

You played this right on the turn. It's not all that close imo. To get to showdown you need to pay 2 big bets to win 10 big bets. You're getting 5-1 so you need to be winning here like 18% of the time. There's no chance you're winning 18% of the time. Case closed.

My question is why didn't you bet out on the flop?

[ISF]

If your read is that strong I think its fine. I doubt a 6% pfr is threebeting any hands you beat other then JJ and AA and if you have alot of evidence that he is very passive post flop then well played.

These situations is one ot those u have to have a good read on the villian to be able to fold your AQ.. But I think u made the right decision with the info in hand.

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
You played this right on the turn. It's not all that close imo. To get to showdown you need to pay 2 big bets to win 10 big bets. You're getting 5-1 so you need to be winning here like 18% of the time. There's no chance you're winning 18% of the time. Case closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are at least 8 options.

1) We checkcall turn and river: Cost 2BB.
2) We checkcall turn and get free showdown.
3) We bet turn and are raised by a hand we cant beat and fold: Cost 1BB.
4) We bet turn and are raised by a hand that we can draw out on and fold: Cost 1BB.
5) We bet turn and are raised by a hand that we beat and we fold: Cost 1BB.
6) We bet turn and are called by better hand: Cost: ?
7) We bet turn and are called by worse hand: Cost ?
8) We checkfold turn.

You are saying there is no chance we will win 18% at river if we checkcall turn and river (1). Thats true. But this is only interesteing if we are check-folding turn (8). And that isnt our preferd option, is it? Our Hero did (3)-(7). Im to lazy to play around with figures, estimating each altearnative, but (3) and (7) has to happen a really high % of the time to make this a good play.

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it and I don't know why others hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like you can trust your read, and sounds like you saved yourself a BB when overwhelmingly behind here to this player.

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
ggman, you can at least pay attention to the HH before posting advice - I can't value bet the river if he checks behind since I am out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it? If he check behind the turn, value bet the river? I don't see how being OOP has anything to do with it?


[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to showdown, thats the whole point of betting and planning to fold to a raise. To eliminate the showdown and try to save a BB. Is it right, I don't know? But I am trying to distinguish situations that don't require an automated response and maybe should be played differentely than what the norm suggests. Everyone has been so engineered to think a certain way that exploring any option that seems to clash with the norm is being met with feverish resistance.

[/ QUOTE ]


I respect this. The thing is, in my opinion, this is not a case to deviate from the norm. Look at the title of your post. "Something i hardly ever do..." What if your opponent does somethnig he hardly ever does and raises this turn with a worse hand?

Poker players are not always predicable, i've seen guys with% VPIPs in full rings game of 96 suited and put in a gajillion bets with no hand/no draw on the flop. Given the tendancy of players to not always do the same thing, when you have a medium/strong hand in a big pot, i think you always want to show it down.

Kiddo's post was very good, and it's not that i don't understand or agree with what he is saying, i just don't think this is a spot for it. Also, i truley am baffled as to the comment about the HH, so maybe you can tell me what if anything i am missing there. I was a lot of people of people just basically say "this line sucks." I actually attempted to give an analysis of why i don't like and what i would do, and yet you singled out my post. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Danenania]

I think in theory it's a good line, but I see way too much crazy [censored] from supposedly passive players like this (even with many hundreds of hands on them for stats) to not see a showdown with this hand. However, if you have a strong enough read then more power to ya. In a live game I think it would be great.

[paco]

[ QUOTE ]
You know you just basically echoed what most of the forum thinks and does. No one cares about saving bets or making specific plays, everyone just makes sweeping general statements.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is right, but even passive opponents are capable of a turn raise with a check behind on the river. What was his perception of you? I would def 3-bet with a hand like KQ suited pf and usually not let a turn donkbet keep me from showing down (especially against donks or tricky players).
I like your reasoning, but I don't think its right a high enough percentage of the time. It would be great to feel confident enough to save a bb in these situations, but I'm not sure if we can, and thus in this case--IMO--need to take the boring, rote, 'sweeping generalization' play of calling down.

Edit: in calling down I mean show down, and think that is optimally done by the WA/WB river donket-fold that everyones familiar with

[paco]

[ QUOTE ]
You played this right on the turn. It's not all that close imo. To get to showdown you need to pay 2 big bets to win 10 big bets. You're getting 5-1 so you need to be winning here like 18% of the time. There's no chance you're winning 18% of the time. Case closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

CAse isn't closed becasue, a different line would have him c/c the turn and bet the river--whole different line, amt of bets, are reaction from opponent.

[rory]

check check check call call call bro