Don't Use Prophecy!

[mmbt0ne]

Ok, fine. Don't believe me.

Here's the email

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
In regards to "pokertracker", please note that our teams of game experts, in consultation with the Technical team are constantly evaluating software, in order to determine the suitability of such third party programs and their compatibility with our Poker Client software and Terms and Conditions. At present, we have no immediate plans to block this software, but the situation is under constant review.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's another e-mail


</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Regarding your query on 'poker-edge', 'poker-edge' falls in the above categories and usage of 'poker-edge' will result in poker account closure and funds forfeiture as per our Terms and Conditions.

In regards to ýpokertracker and playerviewý, please note that our teams of game experts, in consultation with the Technical team are constantly evaluating software, in order to determine the suitability of such third party programs and their compatibility with our Poker Client software and Terms and Conditions. At present, we have no immediate plans to block this software, but the situation is under constant review.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, Party is very aware of PT and exactly what it does. In fact, PT Pat worked directly with Party in getting the hand histories to load correctly, and get the downloadable hand histories working.

[bkbluedevil]

I e-mailed them and asked specifically about poker tracker and its legality last night. So far no response. I also asked them to set up a site to say which software is allowed and which isn't so I'm not considered a "cheater" again. If I would have known they didn't like Prophecy, I wouldn't have used it.

[jon462]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone should check out the software forum. One guy just got an e-mail from a party skin specifically stating that Poker Tracker was a violation of their Terms and would result in an account being frozen. Here's a copy.

[ QUOTE ]
Dear XXXX,

IntertopsPoker strictly prohibits usage of programs that:

1) Automate playing of the hand in any way
2) Participate in collusion or any other cheating methods
3) Use any information which may provide you with an unfair advantage through cheating

We detect and block programs that fall in any of the above categories. Usage of such programs may result in poker account closure and funds forfeiture as per our Terms and Conditions.

Regarding your query on *PokerTracker*, *PokerTracker* falls in the above categories and usage of the same will result in poker account closure and funds forfeiture as per our Terms and Conditions.

Regards,

Chaitanya
Investigations Team,
alerts@IntertopsPoker.com


[/ QUOTE ]

I just cashed out all my money and our praying I get it. I think this is very, very gay on their part as I need to use poker tracker for tax purposes. Saying that I can't use it is like saying I can't report any sort of reliable winnings estimate to the IRS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read that thread, and its pretty obvious Chaitanya is just a retard who doesnt understand what pokertracker is, as all the other customer service reps said that it was ok.

[clutch]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, fine. Don't believe me.

Here's the email

[ QUOTE ]
In regards to "pokertracker", please note that our teams of game experts, in consultation with the Technical team are constantly evaluating software, in order to determine the suitability of such third party programs and their compatibility with our Poker Client software and Terms and Conditions. At present, we have no immediate plans to block this software, but the situation is under constant review.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's another e-mail


[ QUOTE ]
Regarding your query on 'poker-edge', 'poker-edge' falls in the above categories and usage of 'poker-edge' will result in poker account closure and funds forfeiture as per our Terms and Conditions.

In regards to ýpokertracker and playerviewý, please note that our teams of game experts, in consultation with the Technical team are constantly evaluating software, in order to determine the suitability of such third party programs and their compatibility with our Poker Client software and Terms and Conditions. At present, we have no immediate plans to block this software, but the situation is under constant review.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, Party is very aware of PT and exactly what it does. In fact, PT Pat worked directly with Party in getting the hand histories to load correctly, and get the downloadable hand histories working.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand all of that. I was only referring to the email that bkbluedevil posted from InterTops calling PT cheating software.

[cha59]

I spoke with a Party rep (named, Sandeed) for twenty minutes this afternoon.

Use of Poker Prophecy or any other software which might give a player an advantage is not allowed.

Using Poker Tracker (or SNG Tracker) to import information while you are not playing is OK.

Using Eastbay's SNG Power Tool while you are not playing is OK.

The key phrase seems to be, don't use any poker software while you are playing at Party.

[citanul]

i just thought i'd announce right now, if it isn't plainly obvious already, that i hate pokerprophecy, and if i could single handedly cause the company's destruction and force the return of all money that has ever been given to them (and maybe the killing of their puppies), i'd do it asap.

just so you all know where i'm coming from.

citanul, who finds the latest round of prophecy people announcing "our next version will get around this" to be totally flambouyantly amazing

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
just personally, i'm wondering why you call this "overzealous."

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly it's a reference to the Big Brother methods they are using to try to pick up on these things.

Actual collusion is clearly cheating. Data mining is a gray area in my mind. It's difficult to draw a principled line as to when data mining is fair or unfair.

Personally I think the right way forward here is not to try to stop the mining, but to make mining obsolete against those who don't want to be subject to it.

One way to approach this is to have the option when signing onto Party, to choose a screen name for that session only. People who want to use their dedicated screen name because they play as a social/chat thing can still do that, and the serious players who want to remain anonymous can effectively do so.

The serious data miners can't be stopped by shutting down the well-known commerical point-and-click mining programs anyway.

eastbay

[Khern]

What kind of legal action?

I might be way off, but I was under the impression that Party's T&amp;C are illegal under anti-trust laws. I didn't think you could prevent someone from using any particular software just because your software was running on their computer.

-John

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

The serious data miners can't be stopped by shutting down the well-known commerical point-and-click mining programs anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting point, but I'm not sure that Party cares about the hardcore types who are willing to write their own routines to do it for them since this is going to be a substantially smaller crew of people. I'd bet that mostly they just want to look like they're hard on activities which could be considered by some as dodgy, and so aiming for the crowds who use the mass-market tools for these purposes is the way to go. Similarly, it would probably be pretty hard to foil a dedicated, intelligent bot programmer, but you can make WinHoldEm difficult to use and boot saabpo, which is probably enough to keep most people happy.

As for the solution of temporary anonymization, I don't particularly like it, since it also makes data obtained through unquestionably legal methods (playing against and actually observing players) unusable. While this doesn't really matter much for low-level SNGs, I'd imagine that it might make a noticeable difference in Step 5 type games and the upper echelon NL ring games.

EDIT: What about making private tables that cannot be observed unless you're playing in them? This would foil what is probably the most objectionable form of datamining.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

What kind of legal action?

I might be way off, but I was under the impression that Party's T&amp;C are illegal under anti-trust laws. I didn't think you could prevent someone from using any particular software just because your software was running on their computer.

-John

[/ QUOTE ]

Legal action of the "The use of your software caused me to lose $10k. Your company was aware of this danger of account confiscation and did not notify me of it. Consequently you are liable for my loss and will be hearing from my lawyer" variety.

It doesn't have to be an easily winnable case to cause big problems for the defendants.

eastbay