Playing online - for the birds???

[MS Sunshine]

This is a two part answer, first they are cheating and by my bad play they let my win to keep me here.

But I don't care, I'm winning $$.

Second, they are not cheating:

But I don't care, I'm winning $$.

MS Sunshine

[sucka]

I agree with that. I'm definitely a better 'live' player than I am online. I'm not saying that everyone should dump their accounts online and never go back because the sites are bilking them out of there money and there's no way they can win.

I'm saying - these sites - NONE OF THEM - have no oversight whatsoever. What's to keep them from doing very subtle things that make them just a couple more cents per hand - especially when no one is going to find out about it. How would they find out about it?

All I'm saying is - it's possible. I've played enough LL to know how people chase cards. However, I was very suprised at how well most (and I use that loosely) people play given the limits that I have been playing at. On average, the $1/2 rooms I've been playing in online have seen less than 40% on the flop. That's less than most cardrooms I've played at playing much higher limits than $1/2. So, that argument is nonsense.

Like yourself, I find myself not paying as much attention to the hand as I should. It's too easy to call or raise in situations where you 'know' you shouldn't but just do. It's hard to get a read on opponents as you miss so many visual cues that, at least I do anyway, rely on in live games. The list goes on.

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical people. If you have so much faith in humanity that you can blindly say that some offshore unregulated gambling site would in no possible way attempt to turn the tides in their favor - even in a fractional since to make them more money - then more power to ya.

It is harder to play online, at least for me. But I continue to do so (at least until my roll runs out) and I think it's making me a better player for doing so. I'm actually making a little at this point - but that doesn't mean I still don't see things that make me scratch my head. I actually entered my first $5 limit tourney on PP yesterday and won the damn thing.

Anyway, have whatever opinion you'd like - I'm just saying...anything is possible...

[lorinda]

I think the problem here sucka is you are trying to flog a dead horse.

This has been discussed time and time again on here and you haven't provided any sort of new or fresh argument, you haven't made it interesting and you haven't done your research.

The reason so many people have replied is not because your post was fascinating, but more because old flame wars have been rekindled.

We KNOW that this is a problem, which is why we spend our time here discussing experiences and trying to help each other to avoid the sites that are bad news.

Perhaps if you had done a little reading first you would understand that.

Most newbies can be given the benefit of the doubt, but with nearly 200 posts to your name, I would think you would know better.

Lori

[David]

Hey Sucka,
I just remembered don't you play in Lake Charles and Kinder? Before I played online I was a very slim winner in the 10/20, 15/30, and 10/20/40 games at Coushatta and The Isle. I am a small winner overall online, but ever since I started playing online when I play those games in Louisiana I usually kill them. Use your online play as a way to learn and prepare for your live play. It's worked for me. I do try to make money online, but my main goal is to use the opportunity to improve my overall play.

[thwang99]

Sucka, you wrote:

"Here's just one example. I played for a little less than an hour yesterday at lunch. Just for grins I started taking screen shots of boards and hands that were showing down. I started seeing some weird crap, so I started keeping track of the next 20 hands or so..."

20 hands isn't a large enough sample, and another thing, there's selective memory. You can't do this using observation of 20 hands. Of course there'll be anomalies of some type, you'll just selectively see those anomalies, and not notice the non-anomalies in 20 hands.

The four flushes come at the expected rate, you make your flushes/draws at the expected rate. I've tested for this subjectively, by analyzing thousand's of hand histories. The timing of the distrubution, as Tom D has mentioned, though, was not tested, so situations may be setup where more rake is generated, I agree that this is a possibility.

I really wish some evidence would be brought up that the deal is crooked, so far I haven't seen any, and I'm of the opinion that the deal is fair.

Of course, sites being fair, that's another matter (PokerSpot, etc....). But I think the deal is fair.

- Tony

[Terry]

Oh, cripes. You're coming up with all this based on few hours of play in a 50 cent game. Geeeeeeeeze.

Here's a question for you: How many flops do not contain a possible straight draw? Think about this. Count them. It's not difficult. Hint: 234, 235, 236 ... KQA

Next question: How many five card boards do not contain a possible straight, possible flush, or a pair?

Next question: If the game has five or more people routinely seeing the flop, how often will one pair take the pot?

I lost my first $100 online buy in over three years ago. I bought in for another $100 and have not had a job since. I, too, have analyzed thousands of hands and found nothing suspicious.

<font color="#666666"> 27Q, 27K, 28K, 38K </font color>

[sucka]

We used to play down there - haven't been there in awhile. I've just opted to go to Vegas instead. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

For everyone else - sorry I created such a stir. I certainly wasn't trying to. I have spent 99.9% of my poker time playing live. I recently signed on to PP just to get a little action to fill the void until my next trip.

I have taken in alot of information and I appreciate everyone posting. Sheesh enough already!!!!!!!!!!

As I said, I will continue to grind it out online and try to learn from some of the mistakes that I'm making. Win or lose, my game should improve because of it.

As far as the question about 'how many flops are there without straight draws?'

Well, I'm too lazy to do the math to give any exact calculations - but yes, there are often possible boards with straight draws. However, the hands that one would have had to hold to complete the draw are pretty unlikely - even in loose games. The thing is - even at the lowest limits on PP the games, in general, are pretty tight. I actually haven't seen much in the way of 'sucking out' - more of 2 or more people having strong starting hands or legitimate draws with a flop that hits everyone and boards that continue to improve several hands. The number of showdowns I've seen that involved the nuts, and 2nd nuts have been pretty amazing.

I think in all my hours last year in B&amp;M play I've seen 3 straight flushes and quads only a couple times.

I've played online for ~15 hours and seen 2 straight flushes and quads twice - one time is quad A's.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just in the freggin twilight zone or something...

[Terry]

See the <font color="#666666">grayed out </font color> part at the bottom of my previous post for the answer about (non-paired) flops that don't contain a straight draw. Yep, that's the list.

[cavalier]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I think it is more likely that Big Bird shot JFK, than Paradise cheating and aranging flops

[/ QUOTE ]

I just called him and told him about this post.

He replied, "SH*T! I'm caught! Time to fly the nest!" [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Pappy]

Can someone explain all the str8 flushes I've seen in the last 2 hours on PP. Yes, I know they have a promo going on this weekend. I'm sure this is why I've seen so many! Doesn't this tell you something?