A Discussion regarding Online Poker is Rigged (long)

[Mike_B77]

To be honest when I was winning, I was astonished at my win %, and began to think what if............ That is why I cashed out the majority of my winnings.

[Kevin K.]

No, I didn't. There's really no point.

[momo24]

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what can we ... do?

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Link

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Nice article. My favorite line: "Our analysis of dozens of hands clearly proves that this type of action [bad beats] happens online far more often than it should."

Yeah, dozens of hands should be enough to prove this.

[Lestat]

First, I actually did take the time to read your entire post and for what it's worth, I think you make many insightful points and I for one am glad that you took the time to do. But really what all this comes down to is this:

1. You're right.

2. Let's face it.. To the people who are winning, they don't really care if it's rigged or not. Why should they? As long as they're making money their attitude is, shut up and either play or don't. They don't want to hear the conspiracy theories, etc. etc. And why should they?

Personally, I don't care if it's rigged until it starts affecting me to the point where I can't win. I have absolutely no doubt SOMEONE SOMEWHERE is cheating!! This is a 100% fact! I'm also sure it has cost me money. But I consider this money as cost of doing business. In other words, until it affects my win rate to the point where it's no longer worth playing online, I don't really care!

...And so neither does anyone else who is winning. If you could PROVE to them it's rigged, they still wouldn't care. The bottom line is they are absolutely right when they say if someone is NOT winning, it's because they are NOT good enough. Even if "NOT good enough", simply means they are not good enough to overcome the the fact that the games are rigged while others ARE good enough.

When you get someone making a post telling the people who are winning money, that they can't win because it's rigged, what kind of response are these people who are winning supposed to give?!!! STFU you idiot seems about right to me.

[Punker]

Your argument falls down in one particular place. Many players have substantial PT databases on which to run statistical tests. High 6figure hand databases. Simply put, even if the "AD" was set to only run on a limited number of tables per day, for a limited time per day, there would be a spike in 5% wins that would be outside normal parameters over the long run. Its also not clear that the 5% wins would particularly benefit only the fish; in many cases, the good players would be going to the river with overpairs against janky little two pair hands, and be the beneficiary of the 5% win. Let's assume that the fish are the beneficiary of these 5% wins 2/3 of the time; is this really going to have any signficant impact on keeping them around longer?

"how long did it take for the Planet Poker deal to be accepted as non-random"

It didn't take long at all once players were shown to have win rates well beyond anything possible through normal play over extended periods. It's widely acknowledged that the RNG used by Planet was woefully insufficient for online poker gaming. Even so, Planet was hurt more by the introduction of Paradise's superior graphics, support, and software than their RNG problems.

In the end, speculating as to why the sites would choose not to rig games is a pointless exercise. The mathematical data is available. Analyze it and determine for yourself.

[Kevin K.]

You've got politician written all over you. Now you just need to find a worthwhile cause and a forum full of sheep.

[Jim Easton]

From the disclaimer:

"This ebook may or may not be serious. Peace out."

I'm pretty sure it is a joke.

[razor]

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So glad you guys didn't let me down. Bunch of un-supported, "I didn't bother reading it" and "loser fish" comments.

Keep knee-jerking.

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simply put...

It's NOT worth my time to read these type of posts or spend time on some sort of reasoned reply.

I don't believe online poker is rigged, I DON'T care what others think and feel NO compulsion to explain my position or attempt to refute someone elses.


Here's a tip for ANYONE who feels the need to make yet another ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED post.

WATCH Live at the Bike 10 times... Live poker, you get to see people's hole cards, automatic shuffler... You well see no shortage of hands that scream "RIGGED!"

Poker is a GAMBLING game, [censored] happens... get over it already.

IT'S SIMPLE!!!!...WHY DONT THE SITES STATE THAT THEY DONT USE "BOTS" OR ANY OTHER CHEATING METHODS?...It is up to them to prove to us!..not up to us to prove to ourselves!...as so many players are concerned and they still wont state they they dont cheat then I must assume otherwise!

[Fuchida]

I have had my own occasional suspicions in the past about whether it is rigged and by human nature those suspicions grew during a horrible three week stretch of cold decks and bad beats on party (and only party - distribute mode perhaps?). Other sites were fine at the time. It is much more likely though that I was suffering a dreadful run of luck.

In any event, I continue to win at a decent rate on a monthly basis (I even won overall during the bad luck month, although it was reduced) so whether it is rigged or not is irrelevant.

However, being rigged a little toward the fish might even be in my long term interest. Lets assume they have x amount of dollars to spend (lose) per month on poker. If the fish are crushed on a regular basis, they may lose interest and give up after a few months. If they win occasionally they may stay longer and over time I will take more of their money.

Many players don't keep good records and seem to remember big wins and ignore frequent small losses, kidding themselves they are doing better than they actually are. Those occasional successful long odd drawouts keep them drawing and even if Party or whoever tweaks things a little in their favour, it still wouldn't overcome their bad play in the long term but it might keep them interested enough to give me more money overall.