How deep, before you fold AA, if ever? Am I just a pussy? Probably. - Page 5

NiceCatch · #41 05-09-2005, 01:03 PM

How often will you have your opponent drawing completely dead on the flop or turn? How often will you have a greater than 4:1 edge on the flop, or even on the turn? Certainly there are games where the players are fishy enough to pay you off in a big way on your flopped big hands. But if you're too gunshy to push with aces preflop, where you already have such a huge edge, I don't see too many situtations where you can play profitable poker (or at least, those situations coming up often enough). You'd need the absolute nuts, and a player willing to pay off your hand. This simply reiterates the point that it is exceedingly difficult to profitably play scared poker at the given stakes level.

ethan · #42 05-09-2005, 01:16 PM

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It might be right to fold AA preflop in a tournament, if you are not shortstacked and close to the money and with a ton of players to the flop, because if you bust out u get nothing. For example if i had T20000 in chips,with the blinds at 250-500. You throw in a raise, of 3k and some1 pushes with like 25k more, and another person calls with abou the same stack ($25k) and you are one spot away from the money, you might consider folding because, one of the 2 would bust out and you would be in the money. This is STRICTLY tournament tho and an extreme case. I think the ICM might be helpful here. I dont know if I could throw aces here anyways, but it might not be the worst play ever.
This thinking of mine, may not be correct, as i dont play many tourneys. In a cash game tho, it is never right to fold AA preflop,as you are a huge fave and in a cash game, all you worry about is making the right play each hand.

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Unless this is a satellite tournament, your fold would be AWFUL. Arguably worse than making that fold in a cash game, since the only reason to play in a cash-prize tournament is to make the top few spots. Folding AA here means you give up a great chance at a huge stack, and thus a great chance at winning.

NiceCatch · #43 05-09-2005, 01:23 PM

This tournament example is probably accurate if YOU'RE NOT PLAYING TO WIN. If you're playing just to cash, then sure, it makes sense. If you're playing to win, you jump a this chance to push your very reasonable edge (especially when most good tournament players talk about pushing every small edge that they can get to build their stacks).

vapourtrail · #44 05-09-2005, 03:12 PM

AA all-in preflop , in a cash game , should be your *ultimate wet dream*

Dazarath · #45 05-09-2005, 04:02 PM

I think you need to consider if the tournament is top-heavy or not.

Let's take an extreme case, where the payouts are $100/101/102 for 3rd/2nd/1st. There are 4 players left. You have 1000 chips and two other players with 1000 chips each go all-in. In this situation, having 3x the stack will only give you a *chance* at winning 2 extra dollars and you have a significant chance of winning nothing. I'd fold and let them take each other out.

Now, here's the other end of the spectrum: The payouts are 1-2-3-4-100 for 5th-1st. Similar all-in situation. Folding gives you a guaranteed, whopping $1, whereas calling gives you a good chance at 1st for 100. This is an easy call.

A third situation would be where there's a somewhat normal payout. Let's say 10-20-40 or 20-30-50 (like on PP SnGs). You've got some ridiculously low amount of chips. Heck, let's say you've got 1 chip. With 4 people left, if 2 go all-in, each with the same amount, I'd take the guaranteed 3rd place over the chance at tripling an insignificant stack to a slightly bigger, but still insignificant, stack.

I know these situations are ridiculous, but the ideas can be applied to regular structured payouts. Some people who play home games like to have flatter payouts, like 20-30-40, while some like to have very steep payouts, like 10-20-70. I've played an 8-person home game with payouts 60-100. If I had been in the situation where the last 3 of us had 1/3 of the chips each, and the other 2 guys decided to go all-in, I'd take the guaranteed 60 (with a chance at 1st still) over the 1st/3rd place gamble.

TheCat · #46 05-09-2005, 05:37 PM

I can think of two situations where you might fold AA preflop:

1. You have a very small stack on the bubble in a tournement. Three people go all in, you fold and sneak into the money.

2. This may sound flippant but it is valid. In a ring game you fold AA preflop purely and simply as a test of will, the idea is to improve your self control or something.

Acesover8s · #47 05-09-2005, 06:09 PM

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AA all-in preflop , in a cash game , should be your *ultimate wet dream*

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Really? If this is your ultimate wet dream you're a sadder sack than the original poster.

Mine involves Parker Posey, Gina Gershon and amputations. . .

edge · #48 05-09-2005, 06:42 PM

Look, it's pretty ridiculous to fold AA in a tournament unless it's very specific satellite conditions, like I mentioned above. Don't even bother trying to find such a situation, because it won't happen in your lifetime.

steveyz · #49 05-09-2005, 07:42 PM

This actually begs an interesting more general question. If I you were given $X no strings attached and an one time opportunity of an 80% shot of winning $2X, at what point would you refuse the offer? I've added a poll in the OOT forum:

link

KaneKungFu123 · #50 05-09-2005, 07:49 PM

id put up about 90% of my B.R. with AA allin before the flop.

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Okay, so the subject says it all. I've already come to terms with the fact that probably every person who responds to this thread will respond with "Don't play poker, if your such a f*cking girl"...I guess I was just wondering if anyone else out there is a scared little bitch like me who plays limits that are too high for them.

I was sitting at a $2/$5 NL, $100-$300 buyin and I was up to about $500. This was after playing $3/6 earlier and building up to around $450 and then cashing out only $290. We were leaving soon, and I was happy to have made back the money I lost from my peak at $3/6.

$2/5 is the highest NL I have ever played, and $500 is the most I have ever had on a table at once, short of a extremely hot $4/8 session once.

So I started thinking...if the guy accross the table sitting with $1500 was to move all in preflop, and I looked down to Aces, with $500 in front of me, I am not sure if I could call. Maybe if they were black aces...

Momentarily after thinking this, I slapped myself and realised I have to call, or I would not be able to sleep that night...but seriously I dont think I could stomach losing $500 in one hand. Now obviously this means I was playing above my comfort levels and I'm sure the responses will be something like I should just stop playing poker and kill myself.

Regardless, has anyone else been at a table with way too much money for them to feel comfortable and seriously considered folding Aces preflop?

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