Nut Straight on Turn

[JaBlue]

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why can't this ever be someone making a "brilliant" move with KT[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

fim

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because the reason the freeroll is such a good idea is that no one folds the nuts here, so on that thought if you push with 2pair + flush draw you would only lay down a set but the straight would still make the routine/tough call.

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if the person is smart enough to get through that, then he must know what his move looks like to a winning player with which he's played many hands...

fim

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What if the winning player that recognizes the second player could have QX [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] actually has the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] himself? anyway, i guess you're right that it could be some guy making this "brilliant" move on you, but... well... it probably isn't.

[Rotating Rabbit]

Diablo's a clever guy but partygirluk makes the calculation look un-necessarily arduous.

Just think we're going to win 125 or lose 1800. Think 1800=1200+600 is roughly 10+4 times 125. So we need to draw 14 times for each loss. He's got a 1 in 5 of hitting, so if he has the 4-flush 1/3 of the time he wins 1/15th of the time. Which is about right, so 33% is a good approximation. Certainly good enough to know we should definitely fold.

Dont ever use a calculator.

[Marnixvdb]

Richie your posts and reactions are hilarious, were it not, that you are serious. Your ignorance makes me want to scream to my computer screen.

In this thread, several people have pointed out convincingly that the question to fold or call is purely mathematical, and that the push is only a bit too large to call. You on the other hand say it is common sense, and even though proven wrong, you keep asking for counter-arguments.

In the 'can I lay this down' thread, you gave a preflop advice based on twodimes PF equities, which has been proven misleading by several people.

In the 'one hand Diablo vs. Bruiser 50/100' thread , you keep bashing diablo for playing only one hand, even though 1) you had no idea what you were talking about, as you said you never played HU online in open cash games and 2) several respected poker players (including Bruiser) pointed out that there was no problem in doing such a thing, that on that level it can even be considered part of the game.

Every thread that I read that you respond in, you start off by giving misleading advice. Then Diablo comes in, shoots through your argument. Then you come in asking Diablo to stop the negativity and to repeatedly ask for arguments against your advice, when the thread is already full of them.

[kagame]

New solution to this nonsense:

simply ignore all of said imbeciles posts

act as if they just arent there

[KaneKungFu123]

Yeah, i think always pushing here with Q of clubs is interesting.

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why can't this ever be someone making a "brilliant" move with KT[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

fim

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because the reason the freeroll is such a good idea is that no one folds the nuts here, so on that thought if you push with 2pair + flush draw you would only lay down a set but the straight would still make the routine/tough call.

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if the person is smart enough to get through that, then he must know what his move looks like to a winning player with which he's played many hands...

fim

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What if the winning player that recognizes the second player could have QX [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] actually has the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] himself? anyway, i guess you're right that it could be some guy making this "brilliant" move on you, but... well... it probably isn't.

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[Richie Rich]

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In this thread, several people have pointed out convincingly that the question to fold or call is purely mathematical, and that the push is only a bit too large to call. You on the other hand say it is common sense, and even though proven wrong, you keep asking for counter-arguments.

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Advising hero to fold when he has a chance to win $125 or lose $1800 is common sense. You don't need a calculator to figure that out. If the stacks sizes were smaller, say $500 apiece, then that is when mathematics come into play. If SB is in fact on a freeroll flush draw (which many have speculated), then his chances of hitting the flush with one card to come are roughly 4:1. Using simple calculations, if hero risks losing more than 4 times the amount he can win (i.e. more than $500), then I don't think calling would be a +EV move.


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In the 'can I lay this down' thread, you gave a preflop advice based on twodimes PF equities, which has been proven misleading by several people.


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I only used twodimes.net to illustrate, in a very simple and basic way, why I thought hero's call wasn't a bad play -- hence the phrase, "layman's terms". When others attacked my simplicity, I expanded upon that and said that because of the stack sizes relative to the blinds, and the fact that hero was not calling with a dominated hand, I still thought his pf call was fine, especially if he was trying to mix-up his play. Would I have called with 87o? No, I probably wouldn't have even limped with that hand in the first place (as stated in another related thread). But because hero had already limped, and only had to call a small pf raise, and the stacks were relatively deep, and 87o is not a dominated hand, I stated that hero made a reasonable call.

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In the 'one hand Diablo vs. Bruiser 50/100' thread , you keep bashing diablo for playing only one hand, even though 1) you had no idea what you were talking about, as you said you never played HU online in open cash games and 2) several respected poker players (including Bruiser) pointed out that there was no problem in doing such a thing, that on that level it can even be considered part of the game.

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I was only sharing my opinion on poker etiquette and sportsmanship, not giving advice on how hero should have played a given hand; as a matter of fact, I think Diablo played that hand very well. Please read Diablo's other related thread on how many hands must be played before rendered an a-hole for further opinions from the 2+2 community.


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Every thread that I read that you respond in, you start off by giving misleading advice. Then Diablo comes in, shoots through your argument. Then you come in asking Diablo to stop the negativity and to repeatedly ask for arguments against your advice, when the thread is already full of them.

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Many have said that I'm giving horrible advice in this forum. A majority of these people also happen to be the same persons with whom I have shared some sort of disagreement with in a written post. Coincidence? I think not.

To settle this once and for all, I have created links to some of my recent advice-sharing posts. I ask for sound reasoning and explanation as to why you think I am so far off the mark. I have yet to hear anything beyond "you suck at poker", "your logic is horrible", or "more respected posters are shooting through your argument".

Sorry, but you've already been given your chance to rip me apart. Please do not litter this thread with any more vague or general statements that lack any reasoning or explanation to back them up. Thanks again.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I think you should push the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for Shania purposes, besides the fact that doing so is necessarily +EV. You should get looser calls (I mean calls of relatively greater size) when you are freerolling, because from your opponents perspective, your probability of freerolling is lower.

[Ulysses]

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If the stacks sizes were smaller, say $500 apiece, then that is when mathematics come into play. If SB is in fact on a freeroll flush draw (which many have speculated), then his chances of hitting the flush with one card to come are roughly 4:1. Using simple calculations, if hero risks losing more than 4 times the amount he can win (i.e. more than $500), then I don't think calling would be a +EV move.

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Your logic is atrocious here. If we knew that opponent was free-rolling, then of course it is as simplistic as you portray. Because we do not know that, that is precisely why mathematics come into play.

You did not answer my previous question:
What does your common sense tell you to do when he pushes in for $500? $800? $1200? $1500?

Am I correct in assuming, based on what you write here, that your common sense tells you to fold if he pushes an $800 stack allin?


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I only used twodimes.net to illustrate, in a very simple and basic way, why I thought hero's call wasn't a bad play -- hence the phrase, "layman's terms".

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This is what you said in your followup.

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OK, then, in non-layman's terms...

Using simple statistics, our hero only needs better than 4.5:1 odds in order to be making a +EV move;

Another way to look at it is like this: our hero only needed villian's stack to be 5x bigger than the pf raise of $33 (roughly $150) in order to make his call with 87o to be a +EV move.

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You clearly state here that calling $33 w/ 87o is +EV with $150 stacks, using your twodimes numbers as justification. There is just no way to dispute how horrible and backwards your reasoning and advice is.

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Many have said that I'm giving horrible advice in this forum. A majority of these people also happen to be the same persons with whom I have shared some sort of disagreement with in a written post. Coincidence? I think not.

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Of course it isn't a coincidence. The smart posters who are good poker players are the ones both disagreeing with your horrible advice and pointing out how consistently bad it is.

[BK_]

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Sorry, but you've already been given your chance to rip me apart. Please do not litter this thread with any more vague or general statements that lack any reasoning or explanation to back them up. Thanks again.

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to tell you the truth spending the day searching through the archives in attempts to prove that you routinely give bad advice doesnt sound that fun. believe diablo/jay/myself/etc or dont

[Ulysses]

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Yeah, i think always pushing here with Q of clubs is interesting.

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I think that's pretty standard here.