I consider this an example of societal fuzzy thinking

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought we all learned that a macho attitude doesn't help us in Poker? Actually, the lesson even goes for life too!

I see no evidence of solipsism in the original post.
Logic-less? I didn't notice a logical fallacy, but if there is one could you please point it out?

At UC Davis there is a live cow that has a hole in its side. The hole is maintained through medical means, and you can stick your hand inside the cow to feel around its guts.

Do you really believe that animal testing lead to such incredible human inventions that only then allowed for the creation of soft, wimpy humans who can't stomach something like animal testing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry you weren't able to go anywhere but UCD.

I do however appreciate the fact that you are there and not elsewhere.

fim

[Bodhi]

I went to Cal. People of your intelligence are prone to assuming many things they do know.

[fimbulwinter]

I almost went to Cal after they accepted me. Then i visited the campus and met people like you.

fim

[West]

Hey, well whatever school you did go to, make sure you tell D.S. about it. You could get ranked.

[Bodhi]

Haha! The best thing about the hippies at Cal is that the act as a filter against closed-minds.

[fimbulwinter]

I fear many cal minds, yours especially, are so open that their brains have fallen out.

fim

[Maddog121]

Touche. However, my feelings on the subject are that it is a distasteful yet currently necessary practice. The potentially life saving measures that are gained via the practice (and,yes, I am an overt specie-ist) outweigh the unfortunate suffering of the animals. If, for example, a relation or friend of mine, or even someone I don't really know, such as yourself, (such as witnessing the long excruciating decline of one such friend from liver cancer)had the possibility to be saved via the wading through the bodies of a thousand baboons,then so be it (especially given the knowledge that probably over a thousand people would be helped). I would not be pleased that there was not another way, but, until such time, I do not see an immorality in it. At the same time, it would be immoral not to explore other possibilities first and to work towards the goal when animal testing would not be necessary. On the flip side of this, testing on animals for the frivolous products of the cosmetic industry is not exactly on the positive side of the moral equation. As a side note, life tends to be many varying shades of gray.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't find the torture of mice, rabbits, etc. for the furthering of human medical science to be morally defensible. In my own mind this seems rather obvious, but I assume I am in the minority in my opinion.

What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Using animals for medical research is nothing more than the human species utilizing resources from the environment to enhance its own survival. Pretty much all species utilize resources from the environment to enhance their own survival. I don't see a moral delema, I see nature at work.

Stu

[toots]

Hey, at least it's not another God thread.