Ladies Limit Hold Em on ESPN

[toots]

You know, I found her interviews on last night's WSOP to be fairly annoying, and she did seem a bit full of herself, but:

You guys seem to labor under the delusion that she exists solely for your approval. Being a human being, she can dress any way she likes, sit in a chair any way she likes, and go (or not go) to the beauty parlor any time she likes. She is not required to do any of these things just because you think she should.

I watch these shows and see all manner of slobs, jerks, and otherwise irritating people, yet I don't hear anyone saying "Boy, I just wanna take that guy Fred to the beauty parlor, because he looks like crap."

I find it somewhat refreshing that she obviously finds some things more important than worrying about what she looks like. I mean, apropos poker playing, I found her to be a lot more relevant to the game than someone who gets all tarted up, then plays lousy poker (as we unfortunately witnessed).

Of course, most of you guys miss this, because you seem to regard female poker players solely as table decoration and/or potential conquests, and are completely outraged when a female player fails to live up to those expectations of yours.

[West]

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Agreed 100%. Maybe my signal was bad, but I swear I saw one of the final two ladies playing a 72o, and calling all the way down to the river with "top pair". Then telling the other player that she got lucky to beat her!

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It was heads up at that point, and she was BB on the hand, and her opponent limped...so she got to see the flop free, and then flopped top pair. You wouldn't like your hand there?

I'm not sure the criticism of the ladies' play is very fair, especially when a lot of the time you couldn't tell what the stack sizes/blinds were.

[coolhandtom]

i agree that she is a very good player, in no way have i taken that away from her. i also in no way wish to single her out for the way she is.

but she is a PROFESSIONAL poker player. do you ever see star football/basketball players leaving or even entering a game through the locker room in raggedy a$$ clothing and having looked as though they havent brushed their teeth in months? she is on tv and knows she is at a final table? she needs to take notes from her brother, or for craps sakes her husband needs to help her out. I have never seen jenn harmon not dressed nicely and acting professionally.

[Richie Rich]

Thank you, toots. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view. But this isn't a debate about how men and women should act.

Look around at the different superheros in the world of sports, those considered to be among "the best of the best". Baseball, basketball, golf, etc. It doesn't matter. Do you notice a common variable among the elite? You should...it's called class. Even in poker, the "best" players convey themselves in a professional manner. Brunson, Ivey, Greenstein, Lederer, & co. all sit at the table and play poker like gentlemen. And well-known females like Harman, Ngu, Liebert, & co. play with the same etiquette, while making themselves "neat & presentable" at the same time. Would you say Annie Duke is among the elite? Many would say so. Would you say she has the same professional mannerisms as her female counterparts? I don't think so.

Now are ALL poker players supposed to act/behave/appear a certain way? Absolutely not. But then again, they're not considered in the same "elite class" as persons mentioned above.

Unfortuantely Annie Duke has no class. She doesn't sit at the table like a professional, she certainly doesn't dress like one, she chatters nonsense like a whinny girl, can't gracefully win or accept a loss without spitting out her 2 cents, can't be bothered to make herself look half-presentable...ahh, I could keep going. Those at the top of their fields are expected to maintain a certain level of display and etiquette to the fans of their sport. She doesn't.

[B Dids]

This is really, really dumb.

Lots of poker players dress like slobs. They're just all men so you're not casting judgements on how they look.

I agree that Annie gives off a somewhat lousy vibe as a person. I agree that she could have explained her reasons for not playing in the women's event better.

However, this thread is full of a A LOT of juvinile misogyny.

[B Dids]

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Those at the top of their fields are expected to maintain a certain level of display and etiquette to the fans of their sport. She doesn't.

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Wrong.

You expect that of those people, but nobody said that that's a fair expectation. The pros don't owe you anything.

Moreover, it isn't like she's dressed like a bag lady.

You care far to much about somebody who you've only seen on TV.

[Richie Rich]

...how many "top" poker players would you say fall into that "slob" category? And it isn't even all about the "slob" factor...it's how they convey themselves at the table.

Granted I've never sat at a poker table with AD. I've only seen what ESPN wants to show. But I have seen her on numerous occasions & interviews for over a year now...and each time SHE has portrayed HERSELF in the same light. Coincidence? I think not.

[B Dids]

Why does being a top player matter?

[Richie Rich]

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Wrong.

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Thanks for your opinion.


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The pros don't owe you anything.

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Never said they did. But there is a certain level of professionalism that sports fans expect to receive in general. Annie Duke isn't close.


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Moreover, it isn't like she's dressed like a bag lady.

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Close. It's a teenage-grunge-drama-queen. Thought we already established that.


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You care far to much about somebody who you've only seen on TV.

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And you've seen her where?... In fact, how do we know anything about most superstars? If we have to know each celebrity on a one-on-one basis, then I guess you can't make a fair judgement about Kobe or O.J., since you only know about them through your TV...

[Richie Rich]

Do you think this whole thread is just about a female named Annie Duke who plays poker?