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#41
11-21-2005, 10:03 PM
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Re: worst hand ever
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm, honestly I'm not sure. I think they are better situations because there is less danger of facing an overpair but also somewhat worse because it will be capped more often behind you. I like the second scenario better because even though the PFR of the donks isn't much higher they have much worse hands on average than the tags since they will randomly be raising junk when bored. Also your implied odds will be much better since they're so likely to spew postflop. So I think my SOP would be to fold in 1.) and call in 2.) but I could be convinced to do otherwise if someone makes a good case. [/ QUOTE ] I'd definitely call in both cases btw 
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#43
11-21-2005, 10:20 PM
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Re: worst hand ever
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i cant make sense out of a bet/fold on this river. checkcalling is better than bet fold. id also call the raise because im not as trusting as you are. saving bets is in your genes. [/ QUOTE ] Check calling seems like you are often missing quite a few bets. Your hand screams flush draw, so your best hand could easily be checked behind. As for the bet/fold line... CO's hand also seems like a flush draw, and a better one at that. Also, he will know that you are on the flush draw, as that is really the only thing you could be on. If he is a pretty smart player, I think he knows that you might fold to a raise, as you would be thinking that your flush draw is no good. He could do this with a strong hand that he thinks he is ahead of the other player, but behind you. I dunno how thinking most players get, so I think against a regular guy, a fold isn't losing all that much money, if any. [/ QUOTE ]umm how about no. no player is raising here ever because they think you have a decent sized flush and expect you to fold even 1% of the time. and by josh's line, this flush has got to be at least K high or Q high right? (hard to imagine him cold calling 2 cold pf with J9s or JTs)
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#44
11-21-2005, 10:42 PM
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Re: worst hand ever
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i cant make sense out of a bet/fold on this river. checkcalling is better than bet fold. id also call the raise because im not as trusting as you are. saving bets is in your genes. [/ QUOTE ] Check calling seems like you are often missing quite a few bets. Your hand screams flush draw, so your best hand could easily be checked behind. As for the bet/fold line... CO's hand also seems like a flush draw, and a better one at that. Also, he will know that you are on the flush draw, as that is really the only thing you could be on. If he is a pretty smart player, I think he knows that you might fold to a raise, as you would be thinking that your flush draw is no good. He could do this with a strong hand that he thinks he is ahead of the other player, but behind you. I dunno how thinking most players get, so I think against a regular guy, a fold isn't losing all that much money, if any. [/ QUOTE ]umm how about no. no player is raising here ever because they think you have a decent sized flush and expect you to fold even 1% of the time. and by josh's line, this flush has got to be at least K high or Q high right? (hard to imagine him cold calling 2 cold pf with J9s or JTs) [/ QUOTE ] I'm not saying it happens even remotely often. I am just saying that a thinking player could place him on a non nut (Q high or K high) flush somewhat easily. That player would also know that Josh would know his hand looks like a flush draw, so that his raise would look like the nut flush draw. I am not saying this happens too often, and I am probably getting too deep into the levels of thinking. I just thought it was interesting that if the game were really on that level, river raiser could be raising with a worse hand in hopes of getting Josh to fold, yet collect value from the other opponent. Given the hand almost always, I think Josh is beat almost always, and a fold isn't bad.
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#46
11-21-2005, 11:45 PM
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Re: worst hand ever
I would check and make a crying call on river. When the turn is checked through and a diamond comes on the river, I have a hard time putting CO on anything except for a better flush. When you got raised on the river, you made a good fold.
Pre flop call is probably okay, you're getting close to 7.67:2 on a call best case and 9.67:3 worst case with an equity of ~25% on average.
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#49
11-22-2005, 12:27 AM
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Re: worst hand ever
you need 8:2 to make a preflop call with 25% equity and thats not even the best scenario. youre in a reverse implied odd situation because youre out of position postflop trapped between the 3bettor and the openraiser not to mention youre playing dominated cards.
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