Quiz #2

[ProfLupin]

[ QUOTE ]

4- Bet (if a couple of agressive players are in, I would check-raise).


[/ QUOTE ]

NO NO NO! if there are a couple of agressive players, they will raise you and you can reraise. By betting as the first to act you will get the MAXIMUM callers and raisers for your bet. I would only think of checking here if I was heads up.

[jonahmavesin]

Way out of my league here, but I'll participate if only to write down my answers before reading everyone else's.

1. Raise. Look for the 3-bet from SB, plus it makes it 2 bets to call for those in front, hope to fold out some opponents.
2. Either he slowplays QQ and flopped a set that you are crushing (in which case, reraise), or he limped with KJ and flopped the straight. I guess I reraise. Only KJ beats me hear, but there are a lot of hands (sets, two pairs, AK) that he could be betting, if maniacally.
3. Fold.
4. Bet. Most will think you're betting one club, and you have to charge the Ace if it's out there. Many clubs may call.
5. Think you're up against at least one A, so JT are not outs. Only 9s and runner-runner Str8 or Flush. I fold to two bets.
6. Looks like a set or two pair, either with Q or w/o. Call down to the river.
7. Ugh. Maybe 9 outs against a K or draw or better Q, but none of them are good if the flush is real. But pot odds are good (9:1?) on that 4:1 draw, so that's good padding for a draw. Call, then check and fold/call depending on if you draw out.
8. I muck this UTG. I will admit, having trouble reading their hands. But you call it down.

[BugsBunny]

#5 fine, I miscounted the pot size so I can see that there's a huge overlay there, even if you take out the tainted outs and calling becomes easy.

But #1 - why is raising wrong? I really don't understand this one - and obviously neither do a lot of other people.

[HajiShirazu]

1. Raise
2. Call
3. Fold
4. Bet
5. Fold, a flush draw is likely out so you only have 3 outs and the backdoor flush, and even if you hit your gutshot, you still could get rivered.
6. Call
7. Fold
8. Fold...I really don't like this, but unless there are five jacks in the deck I don't think your hand is ever any good here (unless you are against maniacs), and you might be paying an additional bet to find out. In a bigger pot I would call.

Just read the results on hand 8...wow...I couldn't think of two different hands that would raise there that you beat...I give people too much credit these days it seems...

[Ed Miller]

But #1 - why is raising wrong? I really don't understand this one - and obviously neither do a lot of other people.

You tell me why raising is wrong. Ask yourself WHY you want to raise... and then evaluate whether that is compelling or not. Look especially at how you play fourth street if you raise (and if you don't raise).

You should have a fourth street plan both when a diamond comes and when a safe card comes.

[krazyace5]

1. call
2. raise
3. fold
4. raise
5. fold
6. raise
7. call
8. call

[Festus22]

Isn't it something like 22:1 against that someone has flopped the flush? And any single diamond is 2:1 against making their hand and there were 4 callers to me. I raised thinking I had the best hand (which I did at the time) and also to see what the field would do.

Monotone flops seem to be quite problematic. Let's say you knew three of your opponents had 2 diamonds and the flop comes down with 2 diamonds. Would you not want to be value raising since they are a dog against your aces? It's pretty much the same situation here except it's 3 on the board and 1 in 3 hands. Yes, there is that 22:1 chance your already toast but that it pretty insignificant. Please explain why value raising is not correct.

[Lost Wages]

Ask yourself WHY you want to raise

I raise for value. I'm getting 5 callers to my raise so I only have to be ahead 17% of the time. Plus I want to charge anyone drawing to a big dimond.

You should have a fourth street plan both when a diamond comes and when a safe card comes.

A diamond comes, I'm done. A non-diamond comes I bet. A non-diamond will come 79% of the time.

Lost Wages

[spamuell]

When I read the post I nearly said call and raise if the turn is safe, knowing that you likely have the best hand. My thoughts then were:

1. No one is folding to your raise here, and if a diamond falls you have to lay down on the turn so why put in extra money now when you can get more out of people on the turn when you likely have the best hand?
2. If you just call and the turn is a blank, people will be getting worse odds to draw to a flush if you make it 2 bets to them on the turn.
3. Just calling the flop means its likelier that you will be able to raise the turn and make it 2 bets, whereas if you raise here it may very well get checked to you on the turn.
4. With all these callers, it's the flush draw that is getting the most value on a raise.
5. If things start getting hot on the turn, you have position and can get out without losing too much.
6. You might already be beat (I don't think this is a good enough reason for not raising though).

I decided to read everyone else's responses first though, and (at the time) every single person had said raise. I thought it through and decided to write raise. My thoughts at the time were:

1. If you just call and the turn is a blank, you haven't represented any strength in just calling the flop, and if there is a bet and a raise to you, you won't know what to do. If you raise the flop and the same action occurs, you have a much clearer idea that you're beat.
2. You likely have the best hand, get the money in while you do.
3. Given all the callers, it's likely that several diamonds are out, diminishing the chances of someone hitting their flush on the turn.
4. Although a flush draw will be getting value from a raise on the flop, this is also +EV for you, as you make money all the times the flush doesn't get there from the flush draw(s) and all those one pair hands.
5. You have aces.
6. Raising is fun.

OK, so my gut said raise, then my head said call, then everyone else wrote raise and I wrote raise, then MK, vehn and chesspain said call, then my head expoloded in confusion.

Which reasons did I not give? Which of my reasons aren't good enough?

[Festus22]

I don't want to taint anyone's opinion here but the result of the hand was as follows:

2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] fell on the turn. The betting went SB bet, BB and UTG folded, MP raised, I folded, button called 2, SB 3-bet, MP called, button folded.

River was the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and MP called SB's bet.

SB showed K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and MP had 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

From twodimes -

Holdem Hi: 903 enumerated boards containing Qd 8d 4d
cards win %win lose %lose
As Ac 479 53.05 424 46.95
Ks Kd 363 40.20 540 59.80
7d 7h 61 6.76 842 93.24