Added slowplaying to my arsenal today

if you're constantly seen "slowplaying" hands like this, don't you find it takes away some credibility from your bluffs?

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if you're constantly seen "slowplaying" hands like this, don't you find it takes away some credibility from your bluffs?

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yes

[downtown]

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Don't know the buy-in you were playing, but at the lower buy-ins, you might have been able to extract chips by betting the turn from the following hands:

1) club flush draw
2) heart flush draw
3) a K
4) TJ
5) JQ
6) ace, weak kicker

Not to say that they would be correct to call, but that's not the point. You would have gotten some value from your hand.

The thing that you're overlooking is that you failed to extract value or protect your hand on the turn AND that the donk who played A7 from EP at a 10 handed table would have paid you off on the turn anyway.

So... your slowplay really accomplished nothing other than to allow several potential draws to catch up to you. Moreover, if a heart or club came on the river, you likely wouldn't have stacked the A7 and 'may' have even lost the hand yourself.

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Winner. Listen to what 45Suited wrote and don't slowplay in this spot.

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I'm a little shocked you're playing the $55s+.

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I was initially thinking of moving up to the $55s at the end of the month, but this post has motivated me and now I am thinking hmmm, maybe tonight?

[playtitleist]

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a more macro view and seeing one hand as part of a bigger session.

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Okay, I'll bite.

The subject of your thread is "Added slowplaying to my arsenal today". Have you played a meaningful number of SNGs today, say 2500, to offer backing to your stance?

You are getting a lot of pushback from the teenage crowd, because you made a very beatable play, posted it, then quoted Sun Tzu to back your macro level thinking. Next time, I would suggest simply posting the hand, asking for feedback, and countering with your thoughts. We all learn more that way.

Peace out.

[Nicholasp27]

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i was at a cash game, and i never raised once before river. yeah it cost some when someone hit a straight, etc

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so what you are saying is that you are ok with giving infinite odds to your opps...

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Ok, i've read your responses. Some were very good and thought out. Some were bad and from the usual teenage crowd who respond to every post with words such as "stupid" and make personal attacks.

I think there are two schools of thought here. One group is looking at the immediate hand. Getting paid now. That's fine. Nothing wrong wih it. The other group - which is just me I guess - is taking a more macro view and seeing one hand as part of a bigger session. I prefer to sometimes lose the battle but win the war (u know what i mean). Since I have started doing this, I have frozen the tables and taken control. Yes there is a problem with doing this on online poker since some don't pay attention, and if I notice that, then I abandon it.

p.s. If this was on the bubble, I'd have bet before the river.

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Aren't you ignoring like all the knowledge in every 2+2 poker book ever written? And this whole forum? And everything else? To me this sounds like examples in Small Stakes Hold'em, that some people will not bet their strong hands, because someone will draw out on them anyway, or not bet their strong draws, to see the river cheaply...

[Nicholasp27]

a) that donk was gonna pay you off with a7 regardless of when you bet
b) you lost out on chips you woulda gotten by making flush draws pay to chase (and they woulda paid, oh yes)
c) there are 9 clubs for a flush drawer and 8 hearts for heart drawer (you have a heart), so they have, at most, 17 outs, which is 36%, so not 50/50 like you keep mentioning
d) read TOP...anytime you make villian do something he would not have done with face up cards, you gain...so betting enough to not give them odds for flush draw will gain you money
e) look up 'value bet'
f) in this case, if 7 instead of j comes on river, then you go broke...
g) you will NOT gain enough from 'image' to offset what you lose giving people infinite odds
h) poker is math...if u do something to change your image, all you do is change the value of that variable in the equation...it's still math
i) this forum is not unfriendly...but it also gets frustrated at people who post incorrect things and then refuse to admit that they were wrong and refuse to budge on an incorrect position...learn from what everyone is saying...don't just sit here and say 'u all raise too much and lose money...i'm right, you're wrong' or you will find it unfriendly, as you would with that attitude on any internet forum
j) re: your 'art of war' quote...u didn't follow it, as you were not strong when you acted weak...you were very vulnerable until the river, at which point you acted strongly, which you were...
k) this hand would not freeze out anybody decent, nor would anybody decent think you are slowplaying here...they'll think you are weak until you have the nuts and then you bet...cause that's what you did...u checked like you were scared until you had a boat...if u had boated on the flop and then checked it till the reraise, that would be different


basically, with your strategy, only donks and people who have you beat will pay...so you will lose your stack when someone else slowplays against you or hits their hidden runner runner...they will not lose their stack to you unless they are a donk...and oh, btw, donks don't pay attention to what happens hand to hand, so you won't even gain from your 'macro strategy' against the only people that you can beat with this...so bet for value, bluff optimally and don't give your opps infinite odds...

[Freudian]

But you are forgetting that his opponents will be so mezmerized by his oh-so-advanced no betting strategy that they will be unable to do anything but give him all their chips in future hands.

And everyone lived happily ever after.

[illegit]

Don't you need a really good hand to slow play? I don't think top-pair-decent kicker with flush + straight draws possible qualifies as strong enough in a multi-way pot for a slowplay, in fact it's a quite vulnerable holding... this looks more like passive/overly-cautious play to me i.e. wait til you have the near-nuts THEN bet. As others rightfully point out, why not get $ in the pot for when you do hit these beautiful turn and river cards? You can't get $ out of the draws AFTER you gave them free cards and they miss.

And whatever meta-game advantages you imagine there might be for playing the hand this way for a STT are sheer figments of your imagination, i assure you. You have frozen nothing. No one cares that you checked your top pair. And they shouldn't.

[cha59]

Wake up man. You have some of the brightest poker minds that post on this forum trying to help you and you dismiss all their advice like you already know everything.

At first I thought you were yanking people's chains but its starting to look like you actually think you played this hand well.

If you already know it all, why bother reading the stuff in this forum at all?