Racist or not?...you make the call.

[LittleOldLady]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never heard a Jew use the phrase. We're all offended by it because it's offensive.

Maybe it's a generational thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy--

Do you mean that maybe young Jews think it's OK (I think it's unlikely), or that young non-Jews think it's OK, because it's just a phrase and they don't intend to be offensive--the same excuse I have heard from the young for their casual use of words like "retarded" and "gay"--as in "That's so retarded" or "He's so gay" (applied universally without regard to actual intellectual capability or sexual orientation). (I should add that I have heard from the not-so-young words like the n-word and other direct slurs without any defense or apology.)

I got into this issue on another forum where the question arose as to those Christians who are opposed to Wal-Mart cashiers saying happy holidays (rather than Merry Christmas) as a matter of company policy. The prevailing opinion was that all those who do not celebrate Christmas (Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, wiccans and other pagans, atheists, agnostics, and Scrooges) should just suck it up because no offense is intended and that 'happy holidays' is just too watered-down (and, heaven forfend, inclusive). I don't understand this point of view for a number of reasons. First of all, I don't want any insincere company-ordered wishes for a nice day or happy holidays or any such, except thanks for my custom (which had better be sincere because the cashier's job depends on custom). Second of all, things are offensive if someone is offended, the offender's intent being immaterial (Peter Abelard and his theology of intent have a lot to answer for). Third of all, stores start seasonal marketing right after Halloween, and in fact 'happy holidays' refers to Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's (multiple holidays even for the most Christian of Christians), not to mention other winter solstice holidays (Hanukah, Kwanzaa, and whatever else other groups celebrate). So, what's the big deal about referring to the multiplicity of holidays celebrated by almost everyone in one way or another at this time of year? Anyway I had had enough when one woman told me that if I didn't want to be wished Merry Christmas, I should wear dreidel earrings. This woman was completely oblivious to the millennium-long custom of forcing Jews to identify themselves by means of some distinctive clothing item and had no clue how offensive that earring remark was even after I explained it to her. Nonetheless, I did buy myself a pair of dreidel earrings, and they are adorable.

The point is that an offensive remark is an offensive remark if someone is offended by it without regard as to whether offense was intended. The correct response is to apologize, say that one did not realize it was offensive and did not mean to offend, and refrain from making that same remark in future.

[andyfox]

"Do you mean that maybe young Jews think it's OK (I think it's unlikely), or that young non-Jews think it's OK, because it's just a phrase and they don't intend to be offensive"

Maybe both. I'm not sure, though, that they don't intend it to be offensive. I think it may be part of the coarsening of language in general, where ugly words or phrases are not considered as such, especially by younger people.

[Weatherhead03]

Anti-semitic.

[Jack of Arcades]

I wonder if people would have the same repsonse if your example used the word "gypped."

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if people would have the same repsonse if your example used the word "gypped."

[/ QUOTE ]

it just occurred to me that this was a slur against the gypsies. and i've used it for how long? holy [censored]

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if people would have the same repsonse if your example used the word "gypped."

[/ QUOTE ]

it just occurred to me that this was a slur against the gypsies. and i've used it for how long? holy [censored]

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't even mention blackballed.

[roundest]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if people would have the same repsonse if your example used the word "gypped."

[/ QUOTE ]

it just occurred to me that this was a slur against the gypsies. and i've used it for how long? holy [censored]

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't even mention blackballed.

[/ QUOTE ]

The word blackball has absolutely nothing to do with race.

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if people would have the same repsonse if your example used the word "gypped."

[/ QUOTE ]

it just occurred to me that this was a slur against the gypsies. and i've used it for how long? holy [censored]

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't even mention blackballed.

[/ QUOTE ]

The word blackball has absolutely nothing to do with race.

[/ QUOTE ]
No sh1t Sherlock. How about 'humourless'?

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if people would have the same repsonse if your example used the word "gypped."

[/ QUOTE ]

Gypped as in gypsie? I never knew that's where that word came from, I guess I assumed it was spelled jipped.

I was thinking that this is so commonly in use it isn't racist, but then I realized that's a stupid thing to think and it is racist.

[Duke]

After a certain point a term loses all of the racially motivated meaning. I doubt anyone in the last 30 years has said "jew you down" while thinking: "I hate jews because enough of them are fiscally responsible so as to warrant stereotyping."

EDIT: ok I misused the quick reply thing. This should be in response to the first post in this thread.

~D