Early bet/3bet with 88 on the flop - Page 5

durron597 · #41 07-21-2005, 09:25 AM

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With 14 outs, I am 51% to make my hand by the river, as I am all-in on the flop. Therefore, I am the slight favourite. Not he.

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You are correct, but that wasn't the point. The point is that he was calling his chips off in a situation that's close showdown-wise, whereas I have some FE here.

curtains · #42 07-21-2005, 09:27 AM

btw I agree that the AJh played the hand poorly.

durron597 · #43 07-21-2005, 09:27 AM

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All i know is that if the SB is betting the pot into 3 players , im putting him on at least top pair, or 2 pair. So if im the CO here, im not raising your pot bet with anything less.

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The problem is that most of the time I tend to overthink hands that I really shouldn't be overthinking at the limits I play. My opponent isn't going to be thinking about why I'm betting most of the time, he's just going to be thinking about how good his own hand is.

"Oooh, I have top pair"

PrayingMantis · #44 07-21-2005, 09:27 AM

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"IF" I did choose to bet I would bet less on the flop...something like 75-85.

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I certainly agree that if hero chooses to bet the flop, a smaller bet is better. This is practicing pot control. I didn't touch on this because I was more interested in pointing out why hero's reraise all-in in this spot was dangarous and not very productive IMO.

#45 07-21-2005, 09:36 AM

Hmmm, Im only a novice really, I only play $5 SNG's. I am not saying your play is wrong, just giving you a prespective of how I would think if i was the villain.

Usually if the first to act is willing to bet the pot into 4 others, I usually think he has better than top pair.

Honestly though, it's a hand that puzzles me. I cant for the life of me work out what he must have. Im leaning towars 22.

go fish · #46 07-21-2005, 09:38 AM

Same. Half the time I would bet on the order of 3/4 of the pot in this situation. You're leading the action; yes, you have an overpair, but let's face it, you have 8s. I'm not excited about this hand at all, half the time I'm check-folding (no set no bet), the other half of the time I'm going to go very very cautiously. There is no sense going out early on a hand like this. I have gotten myself in trouble too many times in situations like this. The two limpers could have anything, the BB could have anything. Too many draws. I don't like this situation.

I think it's best to treat this like you have 66 or 44 rather than playing it as if you're holding TT or JJ.

durron597 · #47 07-21-2005, 09:53 AM

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I certainly agree that if hero chooses to bet the flop, a smaller bet is better. This is practicing pot control.

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I think I would have felt better about just calling the raise if the pot was smaller; making the mistake to bet the full pot caused me to make a bigger mistake later because the pot was so big.

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I didn't touch on this because I was more interested in pointing out why hero's reraise all-in in this spot was dangarous and not very productive IMO.

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Yea. I felt like an idiot immediately after playing the hand this way. "Wtf is he going to call you with you noob". I definitely lost most of my buyin in Sklanskybux here.

However, I made money in real tournament chips. He called me with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], for top pair and a bd straight draw. He doesn't improve and I double up. Still doesn't make the play correct though.

mmbt0ne · #48 07-21-2005, 09:57 AM

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What can you do about it?

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Check/fold the flop? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I think the best line is probably c/r the flop with the intention of checking the turn and playing poker after that.

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I'm glad to see we're getting somewhere with check raising line because I think it is by far the best line. Looks like you are understanding why. Whether you check or lead the turn is your call. I'd lead half the pot with your stacks and fold to a raise. If called check fold the river.

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Can someone tell me why we expect a bet out of someone behind us? Nobody showed any strength preflop, and I think letting this flop get checked through when we have the best hand (which is VERY often IMO) is horrible.

BBD · #49 07-21-2005, 10:03 AM

Villian turns over J-J ??

schwza · #50 07-21-2005, 10:12 AM

i really don't like a c/r here. your hand is probably good right now, but a free card will either kill it or make you think it's dead. as ~ a million others have said, bet less on the flop though.

i like a line of bet-call the flop. i know i would check behind if i had raised something like 97 or ATh and take the free card, but continue betting if i had a set. thus you can safely fold the turn (at least against me). others seem to have the belief that once you raise the flop you're obligated to bet the turn, so maybe that line doesn't work out. that's what i would do though. there's almost certainly going to be a turn card scary enough to slow down 7x.