Value of the "profession," bereft?

[NotReady]

I'm very happy to find a fellow Christian on this site. I think the only real problem with playing poker, whether full or part time, is the "doubtful things" area - that is, the perception others have, c.f. Bill Bennett. But I don't think there's anything morally wrong with the game itself, so each individual has to decide whether the appearance is too negative or not. I don't think anyone else has a right to judge that - it's a matter of conscience. "Whatever is not from faith is sin".

As to the question of the value of poker, the first question for us is what does the Bible say, not only about poker, but about any job or career? Nothing, as far as I can find. It only speaks of the requirement to support oneself so as not to be a burden, and to have something to share with him who has need. I believe that opens all jobs that are not a clear violation of a Biblical precept, such as thief or murderer.

As to the value of a job, I know of no standard by which to make that judgment. It must be a matter of personal conviction. When the Bible doesn't speak on a subject, a person should go by his conscience.

As for me, I think one of the most important decisions in my life was to take up poker. All my life I've had a problem with anger, which no doubt all too often rose to the level of hatred. But I never realized how deep the problem was until I started poker. For years I had my character (lack thereof) plainly and painfully revealed to me ( and everyone else at the table). After a very long time, I began to deal with this, and looking back, I don't think anything less drastic would have shown me the problem or enabled me to begin to overcome it. I used to tell myself a joke. God had a choice, he could send me to Auschwitz or the poker table. Knowing my problem was extreme, extreme measures were required so he sent me to the poker table.

[CrisBrown]

Hi NotReady,

Your screen name says it all....

[ QUOTE ]
I used to tell myself a joke. God had a choice, he could send me to Auschwitz or the poker table. Knowing my problem was extreme, extreme measures were required so he sent me to the poker table.

[/ QUOTE ]

That has to be the most tasteless, disgusting post I've ever seen on these forums.

Lord, deliver us from "born again Christians...."

Cris

[NotReady]

I would respond, but based on your inability to understand our last dialogue, and the fact I have no clue what this post is about, I refrain.

[GuyOnTilt]

That has to be the most tasteless, disgusting post I've ever seen on these forums.

Lord, deliver us from "born again Christians...."

You obviously don't comprehend what he's saying. Either that or you just really like taking things out of context.

GoT

[CrisBrown]

Hi Guy (and NotReady):

The comparison of poker to Auschwitz was truly tasteless and disgusting. NR's worst day at poker is infinitely better than the best day for the inmates at that killing factory, and to compare the two shows no sensitivity for those who suffered through that nightmare.

Cris

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Lord, deliver us from "born again Christians...."

Amen to that. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[James282]

Hi GoT, your post is probably the best on this thread. I was raised a Christian, and while I no longer believe in God, I believe whole heartedly in the worldly Christian morals and values. I think the final line of your post essentially renders the entire debate moot. Does playing poker help anybody? Who knows? One thing is for certain, there are a hell of a lot of other things one can do with one's time that benefit society much more. This is a decision I was faced with this last summer. I had just started making a (then) significant amount of money playing poker, but, what I enjoy most is working at the Presbyterian Camp Johnsonburg every summer. I have been doing this since I was 16, and I have absolutely loved it every year. The only problem is, I only get paid about 2k for the entire summer. This amount is almost negligible when compared with what I could have made playing poker. The decision only took me about 5 minutes to make. Some things have got to be more important than the raw earning of money. No use deluding oneself to think playing poker is "admirable", it isn't. It isn't bad, either. It is a hobby, like playing video games, collecting stamps, playing Magic, following baseball, etc etc. Or, it can be a job, like trading stocks, sweeping streets, or teaching. It is fun, and profitable, but that is about it.
-James

P.S. GoT, since you are such a grammar Nazi, the sentence in your first paragraph should read "She and I" and not "Her and I". Enjoy! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey James,

I was raised a Christian, and while I no longer believe in God, I believe whole heartedly in the worldly Christian morals and values.

I definitely respect you for that. I wish the world was full of more people who upheld those same morals and values.

I think the final line of your post essentially renders the entire debate moot. Does playing poker help anybody? Who knows? One thing is for certain, there are a hell of a lot of other things one can do with one's time that benefit society much more.

I wasn't trying to render the debate moot, 'cause I think it's a very interesting debate and one that most of us poker players probably have never considered. I was just trying to bring a different perspective into the discussion; one that's definitely in the minority among poker players. I don't really think the question is moot, but I just approach it differently than most.

This is a decision I was faced with this last summer. I had just started making a (then) significant amount of money playing poker, but, what I enjoy most is working at the Presbyterian Camp Johnsonburg every summer. I have been doing this since I was 16, and I have absolutely loved it every year. The only problem is, I only get paid about 2k for the entire summer. This amount is almost negligible when compared with what I could have made playing poker. The decision only took me about 5 minutes to make. Some things have got to be more important than the raw earning of money.

That's awesome. You deserve a tremendous amount of respect for that decision, and I hope you'll be rewarded for it someday, if you haven't already (not monetarily speaking, of course).

No use deluding oneself to think playing poker is "admirable", it isn't. It isn't bad, either. It is a hobby, like playing video games, collecting stamps, playing Magic, following baseball, etc etc. It is fun, and profitable, but that is about it.

I completely agree. There's nothing wrong with poker and I enjoy it thoroughly, but I'm not going to try to justify it and delude myself into believing I'm doing something great either.

GoT, since you are such a grammar Nazi, the sentence in your first paragraph should read "She and I" and not "Her and I".

Oi. You are, of course, correct. Stupid grammatical error on my part. Thanks! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

GoT

PS. Congrats on your 282nd post! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[James282]

Haha, thanks! Yes, I am rewarded every summer that I go back there. Far more than the difference between 2k and whatever I could make playing cards. I'll be going back there as long as it fits in with my being a teacher and having summers off. I think that viewing poker this way actually helps me a lot, because I can view it simply as competitive, fun, and profitable. By not taking myself so seriously when it comes to poker, I don't take bad beats or bad sessions quite as badly as some. A very good friend of mine who claims to be a "pro" player will get very upset when crappy play beats him, because he feels like he deserves to win. Anyways, it is always nice to read posts from people who are well-balanced as well as good poker players. Take it easy bro.
Peace,
James

[ResidentParanoid]

GOT, you have it exactly right. If your only goal in life is to make money, so that you can pursue your leisure time as you wish, then you may be happy playing poker as your "profession". If you want to "have some lasting impact" or "feel good about your profession", then professional gambling may only lead to disappointment.

As others have stated, your main "contribution" as a poker player is by filling a seat that makes it possible for others to be entertained by the game. This has some value. The indirect effect of money flowing through the gaming industry certainly has an impact.

At least in some other "entertainment" industries, you can argue the lasting benefit of artistic contributions. Not sure that you can argue that your artful, free card play getting you to the river for 1/2 BB less has any lasting artistic value. Then again, I'm not sure that a spectacular pancake block by a left tackle in a football game has any lasting impact either. And I'm not sure that any Ben Stiller movie has ever added any lasting value to society, although he seems to be well appreciated and well paid.

But other professions build things, provide needed services, or contribute in other more tangible ways to the improvement of society. I suppose if you find a way to do this with your poker earnings, you may fulfill your need to serve society and others around you.