$215: Interesting use of the min. bet

[Jman28]

I like the way you played the turn and river, and for all the reasons that have already been stated.

I would've folded preflop and on the flop without reads, but I'm not saying that I'm right.

What do you do if he bets 3/4 pot on the turn?

[SCfuji]

hey irieguy

what do you think most villains who minbet the turn would do if you min-raised the turn?

do you see them checking the river most of the time or leading the river with a pot-sized bet?

thanks
fuji

[citanul]

depends what villains hand actually is.

the point is that by just calling, you don't make bad hands go away, in fact you inspire them to take another shot on the river. meanwhile good hands would cost your more money or force you to fold when you could have come cheap or seen a cheap card with some outs, etc.

the tactic is to make sure that on the river, when there's no more cards to come, your opponent bluffs, as well as value bets. if you raise the turn, you're not going to have many bluffs sent your way on the river.

the only hand that it sucks for the opponent to have is a reasonable draw, as you could be giving him basically a free card on his tiny blocking bet. this happens. you put him on a range and go from there.

citanul

[awr000]

What would you consider a reasonable draw here?

[SlackerMcFly]

Villain probably has pocket 8's. The lead on the flop was to define his hand, got called by (surely) a J.

I briefly considered Ah5h, but don't think that he would lead out from MP with a raise on that hand.

Now behind in the hand, min-bets the turn with his 8's to see if J will push, or get a real cheap card.

River is Bingo for Villain (8's) or the made hand with Ah5h from the turn. How much can he extract from Hero w/out scaring him off the pair of J's? t250 seemed to be the right amount...

But I play Omaha HL [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Shalacka

Honestly, the more I think about this, the more I think it's a mistake. Did you consider that Irie? What do you do on the river if a Q falls and he makes the same river bet? If an A falls? A J? A heart? All of this is very dependent on whether you think the bet was an accident, as is essentially your entire analysis. He could even have AJ if he meant to bet a reasonable amount. I'd pay attention here to whether or not he bet quickly.

Judging by the fact that you posted this hand, I'm assuming that it became clear to you after the hand that this wasn't a mistake, but this is just as results-oriented then one of those annoying posts entitled "fold KK here" in which some donk open pushes with AA and hero's unlucky enough to have KK. To say categorically that he can't have AJ here is similar to hero in that hand saying "I read him for AA."


Ignoring the possibility of a misclick here is a legitimate leak.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
To say categorically that he can't have AJ here is similar to hero in that hand saying "I read him for AA."

Ignoring the possibility of a misclick here is a legitimate leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

The odds of this being a misclick vs. 'not AJ', however, are tiny enough for it not to be a factor.

Maybe if he turbo minbet or something, but if he took any time...nah. He picked up a draw or some other thing of that nature (which is still possibly reason to raise the turn, but I don't mind trapping, either.)

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]


Ignoring the possibility of a misclick here is a legitimate leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's one of the funniest things anyone has ever told me about my poker game.

Irieguy

I put him on a heart draw. The min bet on the turn is just to avoid checking and inviting a big bet. Since you didn't raise such a lame bet, he thinks he can steal on the river (maybe thinking you were on the draw also).

[viennagreen]

the villian picked up 4 more outs on the turn, and the min. bet ended up being an effective blocking bet in this case--- but he just couldn't let the hand (AK) go and bluffed the river because of the weakness you indicated.

is that about right?

i don't know whether letting your villian block for 15 chips when he most likely has 10 outs to win the hand is the best move here though--- unless you were unsure of whether you could take the pot down right there.