Post Flop Play for dummies - HELP - Page 5

RobGW · #41 03-10-2005, 05:50 PM

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** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2 , J , 7 ]
Pot is only 105 here. Okay, I'm out of position. I have TPWK, with a bunch of limpers. What am I to be thinking about right here? I thought that if I check, I will be giving a free card if it checks through. But, I'm really not all that interested in tangling with a KJ. What SHOULD my bet have been? Or rather, what is the better move?

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In cases like this I usually think about how many opponents I have. The more out there, the more likely I am beat. What type of flop is it? The more possible draws available the more likely you are going to get called or drawn out on even if you have the best hand now. Also, the size of your top pair is a big factor. The lower your TP is the more free cards can bite you. Then there is the fact that you are already short stacked. Given all this I would throw out a pot sized bet and try to take this down right on the flop.

The Yugoslavian · #42 03-10-2005, 06:12 PM

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Ugh, Scuba, what's with this min-betting bullsh*t??

I dislike the way you played every street, except preflop.

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Come one, you're smart enough to figure out what I am doing here.

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Hemorraging chips?

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Creating posts that get monster responses:
Does anyone think my play is a leak here? 87 replies
Hand Quiz. 62 replies
Bubble Pickle. 52 replies
Postflop Play for dummies. 38 replies (so far)

BTW, creating posts that get monster responses is -EV short term, but hopefully +EV long term.

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So......at what point does this have anything to do with playing the hand correctly?

(Not that *I* know how to play it correctly...)

Yugoslav
PS I am happy that you are very popular on the forum...

nova · #43 03-10-2005, 06:36 PM

Scuba - I would agree with the folks above that are for a larger bet on the flop. Seeing that it's an unraised pot, and bam here come's a jack, you'd be representing a jack (also depends on what happened on earlier hands, if anyone has a read on you or not).

If you are looking to try to win the pot, I'd say a pot-sized bet on the flop and see if you have any callers. With no apparent draw out there, if you get called you may be looking at pocket 2's or 7's, for a set.

If you want to play it cautious, you could check the flop and see if they bet the weaker hands. If it went like that, there's a chance it could have been checked all the way out and the flush being bet once it hit, then you could dump the jacks.

personnaly I would have checked it on the flop: last thing you need to do is lose money in an unraised pot to a small set or 2 pair (or letting someone draw a flush)

morgan180 · #44 03-10-2005, 06:50 PM

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So okay. How about this. I think jkim or whoever played it worse than Scuba, [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Yugoslav

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Yep, but he had the starting stack to do it and got priced in along the way [that still doesn't make it right]

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Exactly, in HoHE harrington talks about how an inital bad play can turn in to correct play based on the odds you get moving forward. His stack and odds seemed to make his drawing acceptable not horrible.

My advice to scuba: PRICE HIM OUT!

joeboe2001 · #45 03-10-2005, 07:04 PM

I agree with Nova, but I wanted to ask you this--what difference do you see between no-bet (check) and a minimum bet? Your villain was UTG and called, so you should be expecting him to have a fair starting hand--like maybe the KJ you were worrying about. When you get stuck in the middle like this--i.e. your jacks were too good to fold, but not good enough to take charge--you have to either see it out as cheaply as you can or semi-bluff your opponent into oblivion!

raptor517 · #46 03-10-2005, 08:58 PM

believe me, im no rookie to post flop play, and im also not disagreeing with you about the effectiveness of a check raise. that being said, both methods offer their uses. im merely presenting the opposite end, as i so often like to create arguments and controversy [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] holla

villafan · #47 03-10-2005, 09:01 PM

I have a quite similar hand here:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter

MP1 (t765)
MP2 (t1810)
CO (t580)
Button (t745)
SB (t1405)
Hero (t1730)
UTG (t965)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls t50, MP2 calls t50, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (t175) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t50, MP1 calls t50, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t275) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t50, Hero calls t50.

River: (t375) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t50, Hero calls t50.

Final Pot: t475

My reasoning is that I dont like to commit a lot of chips into the pot out of position with a weak kicker, but i should probably have bet a bit more (100-125). But instead of making a "real bet" on the flop, i bet just 1/3 of the pot and decide to check call or check fold depending of my opponents bet size. I have found out that i often can induce semibluffs from players with lower pocket pair or with some piece of the board.