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#41
09-06-2005, 09:00 PM
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Re: Blind Defense (In General)
[ QUOTE ]
. . . why one should bother capping in the SB preflop after the BB 3-bets your SB open-raise, when a flop checkraise would get more respect while investing the same amount of cash... [/ QUOTE ] Not just more respect - more misrepresentation too. /mc 
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#42
09-06-2005, 09:37 PM
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Re: Blind Defense (In General)
I agree with the fact that you cannot look at pot odds in a vaccuum preflop. However I do question your reasoning and marker of not losing 2.5 small bets post flop on average when makeing a decision vs a lone stealer from the BB. That doesn't make sense to me. Using this strategey, you could potentially always call preflop and always fold the flop.
In my mind it is more about relative hand strength vs the pf aggressor's range of hands from his position vs your hand while being out of position. However, such as in multiway preflop action... weighing the pot odds for your drawing hands does appear to have merit in many cases. I guess I was looking for some expansion on this idea vs the relative strength idea. Can you explain your idea further, cuzz i do not get the idea behind that?
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#43
09-06-2005, 09:56 PM
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Re: Blind Defense (In General)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] He can bluff 3-bet here [/ QUOTE ] And he couldnīt bluffraise if you 3bet preflop ? [ QUOTE ] he can 3-bet for value here [/ QUOTE ] And he couldnīt raise for value ? [ QUOTE ] he can 3-bet for a free card [/ QUOTE ] And he couldnīt raise for a free card ? [ QUOTE ] he can call and raise the turn, on a bluff or for value. [/ QUOTE ] And he couldnīt do that if you 3bet ? I dont think any of these should make you more apt to 3bet against guys who usually will let you check-raise. When you check-raise you are getting the same 3 bets as if you 3bet preflop, but you also get to see the flop first and doesnīt give him the option of capping. [/ QUOTE ] You misunderstand me. I'm saying those are good reasons to not check-raise the flop. (after calling his raise preflop)
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#44
09-06-2005, 09:58 PM
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Re: Blind Defense (In General)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Great post Sthief. [ QUOTE ] - We need to get to showdown as often as we can. This is is citical in making sure you win close to as much as you should. For example, if you have 54 against QJ, you'll win 37% of the time hot and cold, but if you're checking and folding the flop 90% of the time, then you're obviously going to win less than 10% of the time. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't that not true? It seems it would be OK to fold out 90% of the time if it maximizes our BB's won? [/ QUOTE ] Read the first few sections in the chapter on SH play in HPFAP. [/ QUOTE ] Yea, I agree that 90% is folding too often, but I was talking about the general logic stheif used. The idea isn't to win as many hands as possible, but to maximize $$ won. I'm not disagreeing with SThief. He made his exact point later in the thread (in response to my post) and I agree with what he said there.
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#46
09-06-2005, 10:28 PM
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Re: Blind Defense (In General)
[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what you are saying then. [/ QUOTE ] It's generally a bad idea to check-raise the flop against the PFR, because it gets you into trouble, and doesn't define anything.
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#47
09-06-2005, 10:57 PM
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Blind Defense (a specific question)
Folded to TAG who opens on in the CO, let's say the Button is unknown and cold calls and the SB folds.
You are the BB; what do you do you if you have 9To? JTo?
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#48
09-06-2005, 11:04 PM
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Re: Blind Defense (a specific question)
[ QUOTE ]
Folded to TAG who opens on in the CO, let's say the Button is unknown and cold calls and the SB folds. You are the BB; what do you do you if you have 9To? JTo? [/ QUOTE ] Call both. I won't go any lower than T9o. Well, maybe 98, but I'd much prefer it's suited. However, I don't lead into the PFR with an open ended straight draw. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#49
09-07-2005, 12:06 AM
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Re: Blind Defense (a specific question)
[ QUOTE ]
Folded to TAG who opens on in the CO, let's say the Button is unknown and cold calls and the SB folds. You are the BB; what do you do you if you have 9To? JTo? [/ QUOTE ] I'm calling.
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#50
09-07-2005, 12:57 AM
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Re: Blind Defense (In General)
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with the fact that you cannot look at pot odds in a vaccuum preflop. However I do question your reasoning and marker of not losing 2.5 small bets post flop on average when makeing a decision vs a lone stealer from the BB. That doesn't make sense to me. Using this strategey, you could potentially always call preflop and always fold the flop. In my mind it is more about relative hand strength vs the pf aggressor's range of hands from his position vs your hand while being out of position. However, such as in multiway preflop action... weighing the pot odds for your drawing hands does appear to have merit in many cases. I guess I was looking for some expansion on this idea vs the relative strength idea. Can you explain your idea further, cuzz i do not get the idea behind that? [/ QUOTE ] Sorry about that, I diddn't word it correctly. If it costs you less than 2.5 small bets on average post flop to win the pot, it is +ev. So, if you played the hand a million times, so long as on average you don't lose more than 2.5 small bets per time you win the pot then it is +ev overall. The idea is that sice you are getting 3.5-1 preflop; if you take post flop in a vacuum, you can be negative post flop on average up to 2.5 small bets, because once you take post flop out of the vacuum, you break exactly even losing 2.5 sb on average post flop (average being 2.5 sb per time you win the pot).
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