Would YOU bet out here?

Aaron,
You're quite happy to say that you bet this flop with K - high, as well as when you have a made hand and by no means do I disagree. You win when you pick up the pot and when you are called by a weaker hand.

What you don't say, is when do you check this flop?


I'm sorry Adsman, I often can find no fault in your advice, but it is the exact opposite reasoning behind this statement that I check this flop.

[ QUOTE ]
If your opponents on this table are observent, do you really want to check this hand? It could make it obvious that you check the flop when you're strong and bet out when you're weak.

[/ QUOTE ]


The reason I love to check flops like this is.

As far as my observant opponent can tell.
I bet when I'm weak.
I bet when I'm strong.
I check when I'm weak.
I check when I'm ultra strong.

[milesdyson]

there is no correct answer, because this is all based on assumptions. the laggy guys like to play 6-max, and i think they like to bet this spot a lot (its a good play to do so).

[ QUOTE ]
As far as my observant opponent can tell.
I bet when I'm weak.
I bet when I'm strong.
I check when I'm weak.
I check when I'm ultra strong.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, basically. this is why all the image concerns in this thread are not really issues.

edit: just want to add that the "bet, you have trips" thinking in here is poker autopilot. and that this thread shows you how important reads are.

[Stealthy]

I still think a bet is right here most of the time because in my limited experience the vast majority if $1 $2 6 Max players will peel the flop as a matter of course. How you elicit a call on the big streets is far more important I think.

The problem I see in checking the flop is that if they bet and you just call you often have to bet out on the turn and this very often meets with a fold from most players who have nothing. The times I have played this way intending to go for a turn check-raise the turn far too often gets checked through and I have missed out on a BB.

If you check/call a lot of players who likely have nothing will be nervous that you have a piece of the flop and will shut down, where a flop bet followed by a check sends the opposite message that you have nothing and thereby frees up their betting arm as they can then bet with any hand expecting you to fold!

[ QUOTE ]
this thread shows you how important reads are.

[/ QUOTE ]

[lautzutao]

Yes

[lautzutao]

Yes, it's much better to simply check down here to the river and show trips.

You're assuming giving a free card is necessary to get villian to call a bet you place on the turn because he improves with it. He'll probably call a flop bet to see if he improves on the turn to the second best hand at 1/2.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
What you don't say, is when do you check this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I check-fold hands like Q-high and worse. If villain gives me a free card, that's very kind of him. The underlying assumption is that a generic player will call the flop too often to make a pure bluff worth while. King high is enough of a hand that I get value when he calls, which helps keep me profitable when I lead into him and he pairs on the turn.

I will also check if I have a read to suggest that checking is better. For example:

1) Villain is very weak and I have NO hand
2) Villain will weak-aggressive - that is, he will bet but doesn't like to call bets or raises (the plan is check-raise the flop or check-call/bet)
3) Villain is a habitual bluffer and will bluff all streets (close my eyes and call down ace-high and stronger king-high hands).

[ChuckyB]

In a normal session I'll bet out at that with a 5 or two high cards. If I'm still relatively new to the other players, I'll check it, and go for the c/r on the turn. But if I've established an aggressive image (over an hour or so) I'll bet at it.

With the info you've given, I'd check and hope he bets.

[elindauer]

You're playing in an online short-handed game. Without reads, you have to assume your opponent is aggressive, so the only play is to check and let him bet drawing dead.

-eric

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, it's much better to simply check down here to the river and show trips.

You're assuming giving a free card is necessary to get villian to call a bet you place on the turn because he improves with it. He'll probably call a flop bet to see if he improves on the turn to the second best hand at 1/2.

[/ QUOTE ]
NO. i'm NOT just assuming he needs a free card to call bets. i'm saying that the free card is an added bonus to the bet that many players will put into the pot here because we checked.

face it, this hand is not going to be immensely profitable unless the guy has a weaker 2 or is a maniac and will raise/cap with a 5 or a turned top pair. so we have to figure out a way to get some value out of this monster hand. players who play shorthanded LOVE betting when checked to (you should too). why not let him? this flop bet by him will be the main source of our profit.

betting this is so ABC it's like ABCDEFG, and it's the same thinking as "top pair = bet/raise". there's more to it.

oh, and anyone who doesn't know who elindauer is... well he hardly ever posts in the micros, but he is the boss.