DN, Im sorry

[gobboboy]

I also thought that his play was phenomenal. I've always read his website and really thought that the hands he would highlight were above and beyond his normal play, but it really isn't. He's easily in the top 5 best poker players in the world. It's a shame he does not final table as much as others, and it's mainly due to the fact that his style of play doesn't play well with so many fish at the tables.

[troymclur]

[ QUOTE ]
I still can't believe how self righteous some people on 2+2 can be like Foxwoods fiend. You guys just probably started playing the game when you saw it on espn and year later everyone is a pro. Daniel plays better than all of us combined thats first of all. Second yes he does make mistakes and all pros do. But to sit here and act all high and mighty and say this is an easy lay down because you saw it on tv WITH EVERYONE'S HOLE CARDS EXPOSED is ridiculous. DN has played with sammy a lot and knows that sammy is capable of bluffing him out with a scare card coming on the river. So the train of thought that came to make that laydown was good. Everyone here is not an expert and not at the level some of these gentlemen are at, so stop behaving like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't been here for that long, but its pretty obvious that certain players get crapped on, and others get praised. DN may have a sketchy history of being a drunk a-hole, but for the last two years, he's been nothing but cordial and light-hearted on TV, even in defeat (something that most pro's can't bring themselves to do). And to be quite honest, most of us have no clue what these people are like in real life, but we just love to feel like we can judge them after seeing 5 whole edited minutes of thier life on TV.

People tend to say things on the internet that they would never dream of saying in person. The web brings out the self-righteous arm-chair genius in all of us.

I dunno, Im no sycophant, but I really just felt the need to get it out there that I was wrong. Maybe I just suck at poker, but given his long downswing coming into the WSOP and all, I just dont think I would have handled myself in that way. He was just fun to watch, and that's something I cant say about nine-tenths of the pro's I've ever seen.

[troymclur]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, Im no sycophant, but I really just felt the need to get it out there that I was wrong. Maybe I just suck at poker, but given his long downswing coming into the WSOP and all, I just dont think I would have handled myself in that way. He was just fun to watch, and that's something I cant say about nine-tenths of the pro's I've ever seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't meanign to imply you were, or anybody specifically was a fanboi or a hater. I'm just trying to say that the "jump to conclusions mat" gets thown out here all the time. Personally, i agree with you. DN made great plays (consider that he knows Sammy and his aggressiveness) and kept his composure even when he's had the horrid run of cards that he's been getting dealt.

Oh no, I was talking to a poster from like... page two or something.

I agree with ya.

And personally, Im just proud to have a thread go to this many pages!

haha.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]

Folding a straight against a player on a paired board with a flush out there! BRILLIANT!

Folding bottom pair of 3s with top kicker. Jesus, this guy's amazing.

Don't even get me started on folding AK unimproved on a monotone board of unders, I think I'll run out of hyperbole.

The first one is the only fold that was somewhat impressive, and even that is not that tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's harder to make the folds when you know that there is still a substantial chance that you're ahead in the hand.

They're easy when you're weak tight.

~D

[pokerponcho]

I'm just amazed (and amused) that you are influenced so much by TV.

Those hands for the most part played themselves.

If I'm running bad then I don't necessarily play a KJs in middle. Nor am I defending my biggie with an A3s. If I'm running bad I'm waiting for my best of hands and let them try to take a shot at me.

It's better not to talk about running bad or else people will be inspired to beat up on you. I saw a little of this on TV.

As far as folding the straight goes... Well that's not so hard. The river is two kinds of death. I'd only call here if I hated myself and my chips.

You sound like a pedestrian. I doubt Daniel Negreanu cared much that you trashed him. He's far too good for that.

He knows he has to play his A game the whole time. Not just some of the time, which is what I saw on TV.

pokerponcho

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Folding a straight against a player on a paired board with a flush out there! BRILLIANT!

Folding bottom pair of 3s with top kicker. Jesus, this guy's amazing.

Don't even get me started on folding AK unimproved on a monotone board of unders, I think I'll run out of hyperbole.

The first one is the only fold that was somewhat impressive, and even that is not that tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's harder to make the folds when you know that there is still a substantial chance that you're ahead in the hand.

They're easy when you're weak tight.

~D

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't always make this laydown, which is why I conceded it was somewhat difficult. But it's far from unbelievable-you don't have to be weak-tight to seriously consider folding here.

[otnemem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even the best player in the world who's playing excellent can't overcome cold decks, bad beats, missed draws, and draw outs like every hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


I could. It's not about the cards when you play at the level that I play. It's all about making moves where I come from. Here's an example from this year's World Series day 1.



I'm been running bad, like you said, cold cards, missed draws, bad beats, so I decide to make my own luck. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]


Blinds 50-100

AC has 6800

Villian has 12500

Villian (an aggressive blind raper) opens in the CO for 400 and it folds to me in the BB with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I call.



(850)
FLOP: --- 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]


I check, villian bets 600, I call.


That's right, I call with nothing intending to make a move at the pot on the river.


(2050)
TURN-- 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]



I check, villian checks.




Perfect, just what I was expecting him to do after his failed continuation bet. But then, I end up suprising even myself by my river play. I intended to bet any river card.



(2050)
RIVER --- 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]




I check , that's right, I checked! I knew there was no way this over aggressive donkey could resist not betting with nothing after witnessing two consecutive checks.


Donk bets 2000, I push...... with my last 2200.




He lays down.




Now that's what I call making a move. J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]



Thanks for posting the one time this works and not the other ten times when he calls you down with middle pair and sends you to the rail. That really makes you look like a pro.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm so embarrassed for you right now. You must come from FCP where without a (sw) you never know someone's making a joke. I'm cringing.

[Salva135]

I'm so embarrassed for you right now. You must come from FCP where without a (sw) you never know someone's making a joke. I'm cringing.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the point of this response? OK, if he's being sarcastic, fine -- clearly I missed it, big deal. He went a little out his way, though, to make his point. I'm not at all defending DN, however. What the hell is your problem?

With that said... DN misplayed his flopped straight by doing virtually nothing to protect his hand, especially on the turn when there was a good chance of being outdrawn. However, it's very amusing to read all of the posts of people claiming that this was an easy laydown. Even with the board paired and the possible flush on the river, this is a powerhouse hand with two cards in the hole making the high end of a straight. It's shocking that more people aren't acknowledging this. I could certainly get off of this hand if the bet to me were hefty or I had a particular read on my opponent, but a good percentage of the time I, and any half-decent player, am probably paying this off. This was a very conversative play for DN, and most likely the result of his tremendous desire to stay alive and do well in the ME following a poor overall WSOP, as opposed to last year when his amazing run left him with little to prove by the end, and no real concern for busting out.

Because we can see the hole cards, many of us here have no ability to disentangle our ex-post knowledge from our ex-ante theorizing, and thus come across as haughty know-it-alls. It's pretty sad.