Worst Push of all time! - Page 5

primate · #41 06-15-2005, 11:21 PM

I'm going to put this to the vote.

primate · #42 06-16-2005, 12:11 AM

Okay you can submit your votes!

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=1#Post2648567

The jury is out and I don't want an acquital. I've spoken to Coco and it's all Bad and Dangerous! Get voting people. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Spladle Master · #43 06-16-2005, 01:34 AM

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Even 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] mucks there.

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Are you F-in' kidding me?! Don't make me go out and get HHs with people pushing bluffs/third nuts/other random crap.

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Check the pot size, man.

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I don't care if the pot is zero.

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You should.

Sephus · #44 06-16-2005, 01:35 AM

you guys advocating the push are just plain wrong.

the only way the push makes sense is if you have a read that BB is a total moron and ignores bet sizes.

if you seriously call with the ace here, that's a pretty sorry play because 90% of the time or more you're running into the nuts.

Sephus · #45 06-16-2005, 01:36 AM

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Well, what are the options? Basically raise 80 (a-i) and raise, what?, 20? I think that most hands which will call 20 will also call 80. If you get 1 call at 80, it is worth 4 calls at 20. If we say that the only hands that call a raise are 87[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x then you only need them to call 80 25% as often as they would call 20 for the push to be good. I think 87 probably calls 20 100% and 80 at least 50%. I think A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x calls 20 100% and 80 at least 30%. So I like your push. In addition, pushing always gets some random calls from 2% and a set and whatever. So I think the push is at least 'fine' and more likely 'good'. The key thing to note is that although it is true that is very very unlikely that he will call the push, it is also very very unlikely that he will call a smaller raise. And when he will call a smaller raise, he will often call a push, too.

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i'd estimate that he's many times more likely to call a raise to $15 with the ace than a raise to 80. i wouldn't worry too much about 8s7s.

Sephus · #46 06-16-2005, 01:38 AM

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please find a couple of HHs with people pushing the third nuts on the river when the board shows 4 of one suit.

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with a massive overbet.

wtfsvi · #47 06-16-2005, 04:55 AM

It is oponent dependent if I would call the push (I wouldn't against most) and it is oponent dependent if I would make the push (I would against most). Talking about most NL$100 6max oponents. I think it's very tough for most of them to lay down the A here. They might be able to do it, but I'm certain they will call the push enough to make it more profitable than a min-raise. (Even though a few, not many, other hands might call the min-raise too.)

PinkSteel · #48 06-16-2005, 08:41 AM

I would have bet out on the flop, potsize. You have two overs, a gutshot and a backdoor flush draw. Good opportunity for a semibluff. I would have bet the turn as well.

The way you played it, I minraise the river. Virtually any spade will call, and maybe even some non-spade hands. The A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will reraise, and THEN you push. I think this line would be highest EV over all villain's possible hands.

I wouldn't push outright. It may be about the same EV but you're buying a lottery ticket. I'll take the lower variance, get-a-few-bucks-almost-every-time approach. And I maybe still get the lottery ticket if he has the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

primate · #49 06-16-2005, 09:36 AM

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I would have bet out on the flop, potsize. You have two overs, a gutshot and a backdoor flush draw. Good opportunity for a semibluff. I would have bet the turn as well.

The way you played it, I minraise the river. Virtually any spade will call, and maybe even some non-spade hands. The A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will reraise, and THEN you push. I think this line would be highest EV over all villain's possible hands.

I wouldn't push outright. It may be about the same EV but you're buying a lottery ticket. I'll take the lower variance, get-a-few-bucks-almost-every-time approach. And I maybe still get the lottery ticket if he has the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

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Where were you when I needed you [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

primate · #50 06-16-2005, 09:58 AM

OMG! I don't believe this [censored]. Check this out. My 3rd in 2 days..

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter

BB ($34)
UTG ($98.4)
UTG+1 ($143.2)
MP1 ($71.3)
MP2 ($64.18)
Hero ($124.13)
CO ($127.69)
Button ($103.55)
SB ($65.69)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1, Hero calls $1, 2 folds, SB raises to $4, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $3, MP2 calls $3, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($17) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets $5, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $5, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($32) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $4, SB folds, MP2 calls $4.

River: ($40) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $9, MP2 raises to $30, Hero raises to $60, MP2 calls $21.18 (All-In).

Final Pot: $151.18

Comments please