What could Dannenman have put Hachem on in the last hand? - Page 5

SunOfBeach · #1 11-16-2005, 11:17 PM

i don't think dannenman thought this through nearly as much as most of you have.

MikeSmith · #2 11-17-2005, 02:29 PM

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i don't think dannenman thought this through nearly as much as most of you have.

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bear in mind it was like 6:45am i believe when it was all said and done.

technologic · #3 11-17-2005, 05:40 AM

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I just can't get my mind around the last hand at the WSOP. I forget the exact betting sequence (I'm liable to get it wrong here, so please correct me) but I remember that Hachem called a PFR from the BB with 7-3 off suit. The flop came 4-5-6, with two diamonds. Dannenman bet out like $500,000 with A-3 off suit, and Hachem raised $1 million more. Dannenman called, and the turn came an ace. Dannenman bet out, and Hachem came big over the top of him (I don't remember if that would put Dannenman all in or not, but he went all in shortly thereafter).

Now what in the world could Dannenman have put Hachem on here that would make him call? Hachem obviously wasn't concerned about the ace, so if he's playing reasonably it seems to me you have to put him on a better ace or a set or think that he flopped the straight, which of course he did. Even a decent ace has Dannenman beat at that point, and the only other thing he's got going is the straight draw, but everything I can see puts him behind in the hand at that point. So what could Dannenman have put Hachem on that would make him go all in like that and risk the whole tournament?

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a simple fact could've been that dannenman thought he had plenty of outs going into the river if he was behind, and that dannenman could've also thought hachem was a better player. (he did read dannenman for a set earlier) if dannenman believes that hachem is a better player, this spot was as good as any to try to double through on a draw if he was behind, with a somewhat reasonable chance that he could have the best hand.

PairTheBoard · #4 11-17-2005, 03:35 PM

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the psychological move Hachem made on Dannenman in this hand. When the Ace fell Dannenman went into his Happy Go Lucky Smiley Face routine. Hachem skillfully exploited it by asking something like, "have you been having fun here?". The question sends Dannenman into a Swoon over his good time and good fortune. It reminded me of the scene in the Hustler when Paul Newman, drunk on victory, is ripe to be beat. After Dannenman raises Hachem says, "I thought we were being friendly here". This confuses Dannenman a bit more and before Dannenman can explain how Sincere his Friendliness is Hachem smiles as if to say he already understands, holds up his hand and says, "Stop". Then "I'm all in". When he calls, Dannenman is Drunk on a "Let the good times roll" spirit which Hachem has skillfully catalyzed. Hachem set him up. He out Nice Guyed him.

PairTheBoard

O Doyle Rules · #5 11-17-2005, 04:22 PM

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I'm suprised no one has mentioned the psychological move Hachem made on Dannenman in this hand. When the Ace fell Dannenman went into his Happy Go Lucky Smiley Face routine. Hachem skillfully exploited it by asking something like, "have you been having fun here?". The question sends Dannenman into a Swoon over his good time and good fortune. It reminded me of the scene in the Hustler when Paul Newman, drunk on victory, is ripe to be beat. After Dannenman raises Hachem says, "I thought we were being friendly here". This confuses Dannenman a bit more and before Dannenman can explain how Sincere his Friendliness is Hachem smiles as if to say he already understands, holds up his hand and says, "Stop". Then "I'm all in". When he calls, Dannenman is Drunk on a "Let the good times roll" spirit which Hachem has skillfully catalyzed. Hachem set him up. He out Nice Guyed him.

PairTheBoard

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"PASS THE SUGAH!"

Tilt · #6 11-17-2005, 04:25 PM

I think you are right on. You can see that Hachem is a pro in the every day sense, who is clearly used to playing in every day games where you crack guys playing for fun for a living. I was very impressed with his play at every hand I saw. Particularly impressive was his survival instinct, which was the skill that won him the bracelet in the end.

#7 11-17-2005, 05:01 PM

Do these guys ever make deals at the final table that we don't know about? I honestly have no idea, but I would guess they do. I know I'd sure try to. Obviously Dannenman would be playing a lot more loosey goosey if he knew he was getting a % chop.

#8 11-17-2005, 08:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm suprised no one has mentioned the psychological move Hachem made on Dannenman in this hand. When the Ace fell Dannenman went into his Happy Go Lucky Smiley Face routine. Hachem skillfully exploited it by asking something like, "have you been having fun here?". The question sends Dannenman into a Swoon over his good time and good fortune. It reminded me of the scene in the Hustler when Paul Newman, drunk on victory, is ripe to be beat. After Dannenman raises Hachem says, "I thought we were being friendly here". This confuses Dannenman a bit more and before Dannenman can explain how Sincere his Friendliness is Hachem smiles as if to say he already understands, holds up his hand and says, "Stop". Then "I'm all in". When he calls, Dannenman is Drunk on a "Let the good times roll" spirit which Hachem has skillfully catalyzed. Hachem set him up. He out Nice Guyed him.

PairTheBoard

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That's a very good analysis. Hachem definately took advantage of SD's weaknesses there. I think of all the players at the final table every one of them would have liked to have played SD heads up. He's a nice guy but even he admits that he's only "4th or 5th best at his home game". Sure, he may be playing himself down somewhat but he was much less a risk compared to the rest of the table.

gisb0rne · #9 11-18-2005, 01:40 AM

I would have liked to see Danneman raise all-in every hand (or maybe just top 75%) pre-flop. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

550,000 in blinds/antes it can't be too wrong.

CEE · #10 11-19-2005, 06:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm suprised no one has mentioned the psychological move Hachem made on Dannenman in this hand. When the Ace fell Dannenman went into his Happy Go Lucky Smiley Face routine. Hachem skillfully exploited it by asking something like, "have you been having fun here?". The question sends Dannenman into a Swoon over his good time and good fortune. It reminded me of the scene in the Hustler when Paul Newman, drunk on victory, is ripe to be beat. After Dannenman raises Hachem says, "I thought we were being friendly here". This confuses Dannenman a bit more and before Dannenman can explain how Sincere his Friendliness is Hachem smiles as if to say he already understands, holds up his hand and says, "Stop". Then "I'm all in". When he calls, Dannenman is Drunk on a "Let the good times roll" spirit which Hachem has skillfully catalyzed. Hachem set him up. He out Nice Guyed him.

PairTheBoard

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Love this post... I think the points made are very true to this hand. Hachem recognized that Danneman had multiple motives, one was to win money, and another was to "have fun"... he allowed him goal #2 at the expense of goal #1.

Anyone think it is possible they made a deal to chop in the Men's room? Maybe 85/15 or something? If you were in Hachem's shoes, what would you accept? Maybe this possibility has already been covered.