HU against the blinds - strategy discussion - Page 4

SinCityGuy · #31 06-10-2004, 11:39 AM

Against observant opponents, it's important to balance your play in these spots. If you autobet the flop and turn 100% of the time, I guarantee you that they will start taking more shots at you in these situations. If you sometimes check your good hands on the flop and turn, you can be the one taking shots at them.

Ulysses · #32 06-10-2004, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raising anything on the button when folded to you or with 1 limper is like going to the ATM.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is patently untrue in many, if not most, games these days.

TXTiger · #33 06-10-2004, 05:10 PM

OK more than a few. I thought these might facilitate discussion. I've been trying to improve my play in this area lately, because I think it's a weak spot for me. Moving up from low limit you don't have much practice in steal situations. Early on I just kept blindly betting because "he may not have a pair either." I hate laying it down to the blind who probably called with inferior cards, but I'm trying to stop the leaks by realizing that you are not a huge favorite with 2 big cards.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB shows 3s 7s (flush, king high).
Hero shows Ah As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: SB wins 10.50 BB. 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Th Qd (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 4.50 BB. 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Results in white below: 
No showdown. BB wins 5.50 BB. 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero shows 5d 5c (full house, fives full of nines).
SB shows 6d 6s (two pair, nines and sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins 10.50 BB. 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB shows Tc Qc (two pair, tens and twos).
Hero shows 6h Ah (two pair, sixes and twos).
Outcome: SB wins 8.50 BB. 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Results in white below: 
BB shows 8d Ad (two pair, aces and eights).
Hero shows 5s Ah (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins 8 BB. 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $15.
UTG folds, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (6.66 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.83 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (6.83 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 8.83 BB

Results in white below: 
BB shows 4d As (one pair, fours).
Hero shows Kd Jh (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.83 BB. 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero caps, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB folds.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins 6.50 BB. 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.66 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.33 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.33 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 5.33 BB

Results in white below: 
BB shows 3s 3d (one pair, threes).
Hero shows Qh 8s (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero wins 5.33 BB.

TXTiger · #34 06-10-2004, 05:25 PM

I wonder if anyone feels like you have reverse implied odds when stealing with Ax. X is 6 or less. Most people will put you on an A when you steal, and when an A hits you won't get any action. Unless they have a bigger ace or 2 pair. Pairing your low card may not win you the pot. I am not advocating folding or calling with Ax. You have the best position and likely the best hand, but it does make for some tough decisions. You don't want to give up profit to avoid the tough ones though... Thoughts?

I bet the flop 99% of the time when I steal raise. The reason is that you win so many times with the flop bet. Against a blind who called you are getting 5:1 on your flop bet. I think every player is going to fold more than 25% of the time which makes the flop bet very profitable. I would be interested in hearing an arguement for not betting every time in this spot. I don't think even a tricky aggresive player is going to raise you often enough to make the bet bad.

I hope this discussion continues as steal situations have a significant impact on your win rate.

DpR · #35 06-10-2004, 11:04 PM

I got 88 in BB and CO attempts steal. Flop A 2 4. I bet, CO raises, I fold.

Most people playing it this way or are you gonna play back at CO some? This was a $5/10 game where about 25% of players are tricky HU. CO was a little tricky from my experience. If the flop was anything other than A I am not folding no matter what.

To weak?

Nate tha' Great · #36 06-10-2004, 11:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I got 88 in BB and CO attempts steal. Flop A 2 4. I bet, CO raises, I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's say that your hand was A6 and the same flop came? How would you play it?

Senor Choppy · #37 06-11-2004, 01:29 AM

Big cards including Ax traditionally have reverse implied odds. AKo has reverse implied odds. But I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you. I don't really feel like trying to showdown A2o when I miss, so it's high card value isn't worth a whole lot to me. I'd rather play two cards that both might pair and beat a paired kicker of my opponent, and also have some deception value as well.

A flop bet is mandatory when you miss, unless you have info on your opponent. If he will always peel one on the flop and you aren't going to fire another barrel on the turn, you're only betting to see a cheaper river card. Checking is sometimes ok, but only if you check good hands to trap on occassion and your opponents are aware of it.

ACPlayer · #38 06-11-2004, 01:54 AM

Generally speaking in marginal situations:

I would bet the turn if I did not have enough for a cheap showdown. I would check the turn if I had enough for a cheap showdown.

However, my playing pattern for the last hour or so weighs heavy on my mind when I am making the flop, turn and bet decisions.

Godwin · #39 06-11-2004, 07:24 AM

I am almost always going to bet here (on the turn). Your bet on the flop was obligatory, as was his call. Neither of you gained any card information from that exchange. Now there are 3.5 bets in the pot. If you can get him to fold as much as 1/3 of the time you are ahead. But even if he calls you may win the showdown.

Betting the river is a bit more in doubt. He has shown he either has a hand or at least understands why he can't let you steal...which means he is dangerous. If you can't call a raise on the river, don't bet...otherwise, bet out.

Godwin

Fnord · #40 06-18-2004, 07:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I got 88 in BB and CO attempts steal. Flop A 2 4. I bet, CO raises, I fold.

Most people playing it this way or are you gonna play back at CO some? This was a $5/10 game where about 25% of players are tricky HU. CO was a little tricky from my experience. If the flop was anything other than A I am not folding no matter what.

To weak?

[/ QUOTE ]

By stealing the blinds he's going to represent an Ace, he's capable of bluffing and the Ace is the only overcard out. Why not check+call here? Would you be more inclined to check+call if the steal came from the button?