Value of the "profession," bereft?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

the difference between a stock trader and a gambler is that stock traders get some measure of respect from the public and the standard deviation of an unleveraged trader is much smaller.

Sure, but as to caring what other people think, I leave it to Polonius:

"Above all else, to thine own self be true." [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[James282]

I love when people quote Polonius, who is largely considered one of the biggest buffoons in Shakespearean literature [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I play poker mostly to just help society.
-James

[MicroBob]

warning - ideas contained herein could be construed as pessimistic and/or controversial. apologies in advance if these ideas rub someone the wrong way.

i think it's silly to try to argue one's poker career as helping to benfit society just because it helps keep the casino stay in business.

if you're that concerned about the poor dealers you can walk up and bet $1000 on a BJ hand and double down on a hard-19...or you can bet $5, win the hand and then tip $1K (which is where the greater percentage of the dealer's pay originates from).

there is no shame with taking up a profession with intentions of making money.
my area drug dealer is providing a service to society but that doesnt make him a terribly good person.

there are some jobs which more directly contribute to society (school-teacher, auto-mechanic, waitress, leukemia researcher) and others which probably don't quite as much (pencil-pusher at large corporation, maytag repairman, ub customer service).

i view my surging poker career as my window TOWARD contributing more to myself. the aspect of 'get my hours in when i choose' can give me greater freedom to read more, educate myself in topics interesting to me, exercise more, travel more, broaden my own horizons....and, if i choose to, contribute something greater to society as well (or at least attempt to).

by the technical definition, my current 'real' job as a BJ dealer is one in which i help a company provide an entertaining diversion from the 'real world' for its customers.
but i don't do it for any societal contribution involved. in spite of their little propoganda company newsletters, i don't really feel terribly indebted to the comnpnay either nor do i care whether or not their prfoits are up.
i deal cards because it helps pay the bills, and more often than not, i have a fairly enjoyable time at work. certainly moreso than in any office-type 9-to-5 situation i've been involved in.
additionally, at this job where it could be argued i am supposedly contributing something i feel like i am actually wasting my time there because there are far more productive things i could be doing WITH MY OWN LIFE then slinging cards across a table.

aldous huxley had some ideas on the matter at hand in his novel Point Counter Point. to paraphrase (because i don't feel like looking it up right now)....one would best be advised to view one's job as a means to an end. those who delude themselves into thinking they are doing something important by helping their company succeed are setting themselves up for a big fall when they finally and eventually realize that their efforts were most likely not that important in the grand scheme of things.
so put in your 40 hours per week because it is a necessary evil. but remember that you are doing it because you have to and that the rest of your time should be spent living life...not convincing oneself that what one is doing at work is ultimately important.


if you enjoy playing poker AND can make money at it....go ahead and do it.

[GuyOnTilt]

Wow. I wish I had found this thread sooner...

Funny this is, a girl in my life and I recently had a long, late-night discussion about my pokering (sweet verb tense). Her and I like to get in debates about various things, and I can usually one-up her and end up "winning", but this time, I ended up not really wanting to, which is really saying something, since I'm an extremely competitive guy. What is really came down to was, "What is my playing poker doing to enhance the common good?"

I know a lot of people hereit a couple times before, but I'm a "born again" Christian. I love my God and have committed my life to trying to do my best to follow Him, which really comes down to two things: to know Him, and to make Him known. That's my life's creed. And when I really think about it, where does poker fall into that? Sure, I can make excuses and justify it with all sorts of things. I can claim that I'm providing a service of entertainment to my fellow poker players, or can justify could not care less about that, and would say that looking out for number one should be your priority in life, and that's fine, but the problem is that I don't agree with that. I think I've mentioned it by saying that traders do the same thing, or that I'm making more money than I could anywhere else and as a result am tithing more to the church. I can justify it all sorts of ways, and usually I do. I'm a smart kid and have become pretty good at being able to justify my actions, persuade others to look at things my way, talk my way out of things, etc. But if I really want to be real with myself, I'm not sure how much good I'm really doing in the world by playing poker full-time right now.

This same girl always tells me that I'm not living up to my potential, that I could be doing so much more. And maybe she's right. See, the gambling aspect of poker doesn't bother me in any moral way at all. I think I'm doing a very good job of investing my money and maximizing it. I'm smart with my money-management and I plan to keep it that way. And I really didn't have any problems with playing poker full-time until this issue came up. See, I want to do something with my life. Not just in the sense of career goals and accomplishments; I couldn't care less about that crap. What I really want is to make an impact on the people I come into contact with. I want to make them better, in every sense of the word.

You know what I love? I love the feeling I get when I buy a burger and a shake for a homeless guy panhandling outside a restaurant. I love the feeling I get when I hold the door open for the couple behind me when I'm out on a date, and the people just keep coming and I end up standing there for 30 seconds. I love the feeling I get when I stop and help the guy whose car broke down on the side of the highway.

And no matter how much money I win at the tables, or how many personal bankroll goals I'm able to reach, I just don't get that same feeling playing poker.

I guess, for me, it really shouldn't be a question of how much I'm doing to enhance the common good by playing poker; it should be how much more I could be doing.

Anyways, just my late-night ramblings.

GoT

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Even buffoons get it right now and then, even if by accident.

In fact, rather than dissing the messenger, tell me what was wrong with that tidbit of advice?

Or this one?

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
for a loan often loseth both itself and friend
and borrowing dulleth the edge of husbandry."

(apologies if I misquote, it's from memory)

A fundamental mistake in life is mistaking the quality of the messenger for the quality of the message. In both directions.

[CrisBrown]

Hi microboy,

[ QUOTE ]
so put in your 40 hours per week because it is a necessary evil. but remember that you are doing it because you have to and that the rest of your time should be spent living life...not convincing oneself that what one is doing at work is ultimately important.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even better, find a job you enjoy doing -- whether it's important or not, so long as it pays the bills -- and live life a little while you're at work too. To devote 1/3 or more of your day to "a necessary evil" seems like a recipe for depression.

Cris

[CrisBrown]

Hi Guy,

[ QUOTE ]
This same girl always tells me that I'm not living up to my potential, that I could be doing so much more. And maybe she's right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pardon my frankness, but it's time to find another girlfriend. Who wants or needs to be saddled with someone who's going to spend the rest of your life harping at you about "living up to your potential?" For that matter, who says she's the final arbiter of "your potential?"

"You're not living up to your potential" is really just another way of saying "I'm not satisfied with you." Sorry, but that's the plain truth of the matter.

As for the rest of your post, a recent issue of Catholic Digest was largely devoted to how to transform one's "job" into a "vocation." You can probably find the issue in any reasonably-sized Catholic parish library; if not, I'm sure you can order it online.

Cris

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
"What is my playing poker doing to enhance the common good?"

[/ QUOTE ]

You might as well give up on any and all recreation if that is going to be your litmus test of what you should spend your time doing.

You can argue that playing sports will help you exercise, keeping you healthy and lowering overall costs of health care. But what the hell kind of collectivist, Orwellian, nightmare logic is that to apply to all decisions about how you spend every moment of your life?

Don't fall for this trap. No one questions other leisure activities, but for some reason if you spend your time with anything invloving chance, you're instantly a degenerate.

Most cultures have a healthy appreciation for chance as part of everyday life. Our own language reflects this. Happ , middle english, from old norse, meaning good luck. Hence happy. Yes, we take it to mean content now, but its roots mean just plain old lucky.

Next time someone demands proof of benefit from your poker play, just throw life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness back at them.

[NotReady]

I'm very happy to find a fellow Christian on this site. I think the only real problem with playing poker, whether full or part time, is the "doubtful things" area - that is, the perception others have, c.f. Bill Bennett. But I don't think there's anything morally wrong with the game itself, so each individual has to decide whether the appearance is too negative or not. I don't think anyone else has a right to judge that - it's a matter of conscience. "Whatever is not from faith is sin".

As to the question of the value of poker, the first question for us is what does the Bible say, not only about poker, but about any job or career? Nothing, as far as I can find. It only speaks of the requirement to support oneself so as not to be a burden, and to have something to share with him who has need. I believe that opens all jobs that are not a clear violation of a Biblical precept, such as thief or murderer.

As to the value of a job, I know of no standard by which to make that judgment. It must be a matter of personal conviction. When the Bible doesn't speak on a subject, a person should go by his conscience.

As for me, I think one of the most important decisions in my life was to take up poker. All my life I've had a problem with anger, which no doubt all too often rose to the level of hatred. But I never realized how deep the problem was until I started poker. For years I had my character (lack thereof) plainly and painfully revealed to me ( and everyone else at the table). After a very long time, I began to deal with this, and looking back, I don't think anything less drastic would have shown me the problem or enabled me to begin to overcome it. I used to tell myself a joke. God had a choice, he could send me to Auschwitz or the poker table. Knowing my problem was extreme, extreme measures were required so he sent me to the poker table.

[CrisBrown]

Hi NotReady,

Your screen name says it all....

[ QUOTE ]
I used to tell myself a joke. God had a choice, he could send me to Auschwitz or the poker table. Knowing my problem was extreme, extreme measures were required so he sent me to the poker table.

[/ QUOTE ]

That has to be the most tasteless, disgusting post I've ever seen on these forums.

Lord, deliver us from "born again Christians...."

Cris