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#31
12-02-2005, 06:58 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If the customers benefit from that firm, I see no reason why they wouldn't join in. Or suppose a firm upholds a law that people shouldn't be allowed to gamble, and starts imposing fines on people who don't. A lot of people will support this firm, especially since they might be cheaper. Of course, this all comes from fantasy land, AC's would be better off if they just stuck with pure anarchy, as it at least makes f'in sense and is consistent with itself. [/ QUOTE ] In AC there ARE laws. Again, I cite the non-aggression axiom. . It is unlawful for someone to impose their will on another without consent. The fines you state in your example would be considered theft under AC, and proper action by other firms would be taken against said firm. Additionally, it is unlikely that such a firm would survive in AC because it would be less efficient than firms which simply uphold the non-aggression principle (again, any revenue from fines is illegal). I realize that AC rests on the basis that people understand and accept natural law. A few centuries ago, kings derived their legitimacy from divine right. Why, in the future, is it not possible for people to realize the forceful nature of the state and accept natural law? [/ QUOTE ] A law is a piece of paper or an idea. It has no power. Only when it is enforced does it have an ounce of power. Now you are saying that in this free-for-all, people will either "obey the law on their own", or other groups, that must initiate force to enforce it, will also stop at these bounds. Less efficient? Come on, be realistic, if that's the case, no one would ever commit a crime. Of course it's more efficient to take someone elses property than earn it fair and square. So you end up with 1) 1 group that is real powerful and demanding protection money and no one can stop them 2) A massive civil-war-ish type conflict where various groups try to fight control to keep avenging these mistreatments. To expect living in the state of nature to produce order is patently rediculous. 
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#32
12-02-2005, 07:02 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
[ QUOTE ]
1) I don't claim that anarcho-capitalism is utopian You want a world without taxes, where the market is king and ultimately decides all. Semantics. 2) Why do you believe that feudalism is the inevitable outcome of AC? Give me *some* line of reasoning The survival of the fittest, to the victors go the spoils, the rich get richer. Feudalism collapsed because of the greed of the haves not because they suddenly cared for the have-nots. They couldn't stop trying to crush each other and ultimately only weakened themselves. [/ QUOTE ] Poor example. Your knowledge of economics is obviously limited. You are not taking into account the development of infrastructure the fact that free-market economics is positive-sum. In America for example, the overall standard of living is very high not because of the intervention of the state, but because of the lack of intervention by the state relative to other nations (America is one of the freer states economically). Of course, this is largely due to the development of infrastructure and a vast service industry.
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#33
12-02-2005, 07:05 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 1) I don't claim that anarcho-capitalism is utopian You want a world without taxes, where the market is king and ultimately decides all. Semantics. 2) Why do you believe that feudalism is the inevitable outcome of AC? Give me *some* line of reasoning The survival of the fittest, to the victors go the spoils, the rich get richer. Feudalism collapsed because of the greed of the haves not because they suddenly cared for the have-nots. They couldn't stop trying to crush each other and ultimately only weakened themselves. [/ QUOTE ] Poor example. Your knowledge of economics is obviously limited. You are not taking into account the development of infrastructure the fact that free-market economics is positive-sum. In America for example, the overall standard of living is very high not because of the intervention of the state, but because of the lack of intervention by the state relative to other nations (America is one of the freer states economically). Of course, this is largely due to the development of infrastructure and a vast service industry. [/ QUOTE ] My knowledge of economics is limited? *laughs*. I didn't state a single thing about transportation or intervention creating good things in this country. 2 things have allowed the US to excel. 1) High degree of freedom and privitization 2) Consistent rule of law To think that there can be a form of anarchy with the rule of law is quite rediculous.
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#34
12-02-2005, 07:08 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
Where does environmental protection come into play in AnCap?
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#35
12-02-2005, 07:10 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
[ QUOTE ]
To expect living in the state of nature to produce order is patently rediculous. [/ QUOTE ] This state of order exists in nature among every living thing on Earth besides humans.
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#36
12-02-2005, 07:15 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] To expect living in the state of nature to produce order is patently rediculous. [/ QUOTE ] This state of order exists in nature among every living thing on Earth besides humans. [/ QUOTE ] But would you trade places with animals? When was the last time you didn't eat for days because you couldn't kill anything or got attacked by something that wanted to eat you while you were just trying to get a drink of water? And you broke your arm? Well, looks like you're going to die then.
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#37
12-02-2005, 07:18 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
[ QUOTE ]
But would you trade places with animals? When was the last time you didn't eat for days because you couldn't kill anything or got attacked by something that wanted to eat you while you were just trying to get a drink of water? And you broke your arm? Well, looks like you're going to die then. [/ QUOTE ] No one said anything about removing human intelligence and resourcefulness.
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#38
12-02-2005, 07:20 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
[ QUOTE ]
A law is a piece of paper or an idea. It has no power. Only when it is enforced does it have an ounce of power. Now you are saying that in this free-for-all, people will either "obey the law on their own", or other groups, that must initiate force to enforce it, will also stop at these bounds. Less efficient? Come on, be realistic, if that's the case, no one would ever commit a crime. Of course it's more efficient to take someone elses property than earn it fair and square. So you end up with 1) 1 group that is real powerful and demanding protection money and no one can stop them 2) A massive civil-war-ish type conflict where various groups try to fight control to keep avenging these mistreatments. To expect living in the state of nature to produce order is patently rediculous. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, for AC to exist I realize that there needs to be a paradigm shift. The only thing that needs to occur for AC to be successful is the basic principle that enough people do not believe in the use of force as to make such actions unprofitable. Resources are power in AC, people will not engage in contracts with or direct resources to those who violate the non-aggression axiom, therefore violators will have no power and order will persist. It is quite simple. Again, just because the vast majority of people accept the use of force now (primarily, in my opinion, out of ignorance) does not mean that this can't change in the future.
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#39
12-02-2005, 07:23 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] To expect living in the state of nature to produce order is patently rediculous. [/ QUOTE ] This state of order exists in nature among every living thing on Earth besides humans. [/ QUOTE ] You don't think animals steal from each other? Or "rape" the weaker females? Read Leviathan, it's quite obvious you are ignorant of the State of Nature argument. That's REAL Natural Law.
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#40
12-02-2005, 07:28 PM
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Re: Possible problems with anarcho-capitalism
[ QUOTE ]
My knowledge of economics is limited? *laughs*. [/ QUOTE ] I was responding to superleeds' rationalization for the transformation of AC into feudalism. I am sure your knowledge of economics is quite expansive. [ QUOTE ] I didn't state a single thing about transportation or intervention creating good things in this country. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I wasn't responding to your post. Notice the quote above... [ QUOTE ] 2 things have allowed the US to excel. 1) High degree of freedom and privitization 2) Consistent rule of law [/ QUOTE ] 1) Agreed. 2) Agreed. This isn't to say that it is only possible under a statist system however. [ QUOTE ] To think that there can be a form of anarchy with the rule of law is quite rediculous. [/ QUOTE ] As of now it seems that way. Popular attitudes change though... read my other post.
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