Would YOU bet out here?

[p@t@dds]

I think it really depends on what your table image is and who is in the hand with you. If you have an image of being a TAG player I would check hoping someone else gives action. If your image is more of a LAG I would bet out. As for who is in the hand with you, if it's a bunch of tight players I would check. If it's a bunch of fish or tricky players I would bet out. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Nikademus]

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a bet, c/r would be sexy here

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Without a read here, there's no guarantee villain would bet that flop. This is a pretty straight forward bet.

[adsman]

Tricky. The problem is that we don't have position. Lets say we check the flop and he checks behind. The turn card falls. Do we bet out or do we try to get him to pick up the pot again?
But there are other points to consider here, mainly concerning metagame purposes. If your opponents on this table are observent, do you really want to check this hand? It could make it obvious that you check the flop when you're strong and bet out when you're weak. How long have you been at the table? How good are your opponents? What sort of reads do you have on them? What is your table image against this particular opponent? Has he caught you bluffing a few times recently or is he wary of you? I think you have to consider these factors before making a decision here.

[2+2 wannabe]

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a bet, c/r would be sexy here

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Without a read here, there's no guarantee villain would bet that flop. This is a pretty straight forward bet.

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I agree

if you bet and he calls then you c/r the turn - hence the bet, c/r

I'm definitely not advocating a flop c/r here

[Aaron W.]

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and back to the betting with A/K-high. are you ever happy if you get a flop call? the pot will be 4.5 small bets on the turn. are you going to throw about another half of the pot in with K-high? no, right? so if he had 6 outs on the flop, he often gets to see the river for 1 small bet. plus he may be calling you with A-high or a better K-high to begin with.

so, you bet a high card hand on these flops because your hand beats his limping range on this ragged flop. you do not want a call. if he calls you're basically stuck checking and folding for the rest of the hand unless you improve.

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I'm ambivalent if he calls. Most likely, he's calling with a worse hand. If he has a worse hand, he's drawing to about 6 outs and I've got an overcard redraw.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1341299
pokenum -h ks 7h - td 9d -- 2c 2d 5s
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 5s 2c 2d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks 7h 694 70.10 276 27.88 20 2.02 0.711
Td 9d 276 27.88 694 70.10 20 2.02 0.289

So if he calls, I don't mind because I just made money. If he folds, that's okay because I win the pot.

I'm autobetting the turn with king-high and expecting the unknown villain to fold most of the time. If he calls again, I assume he paired and check-fold the river if I don't pair my king. I don't mind putting the money in the pot, either. It doesn't matter that it's a half-pot bet size. Why? Because I believe I'm getting much better than 2:1 on him folding the turn.

Again, having reads would change everything. This is the default play.

So going back to the trips hand, I'm betting the flop because I expect him to call the flop bet and because waiting until the turn to bet doesn't often make more money for me.

[Greg J]

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why bet in such a small pot with such a huge hand?

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Because it's hard for villian to call your bets if you don't make them.

I thinking you might be overthinking this hand. If I have a good hand I want money in the pot. If villian does something that makes me think I can get more money in the middle doing something besides betting, then I might take another line. Until then, I don't see any other way to play it besides making value bets.

[Stealthy]

VERY player dependant for me. I tend to lead as I lead most heads up and 3 handed pots with any part of the board, even a gut-shot at times. If my opponent is passive but tends to call I like to just bet it all the way.

If I have a reasonably aggressive player I often lead the flop, pray for a call and then check!! the turn for a check-raise. This has worked very well for me at 6 Max and putting in a little delay before the raise can get you 3 bet by the right opponent! Even when they just call the raise, which they usually do, they will very often call the river bet with as little as Queen high just cause they think you are at it.

I like this line cause it looks like you took a shot at the flop but then bottled the turn and most take that as an invitation to bet.

[milesdyson]

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why bet in such a small pot with such a huge hand?

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Because it's hard for villian to call your bets if you don't make them.

I thinking you might be overthinking this hand. If I have a good hand I want money in the pot. If villian does something that makes me think I can get more money in the middle doing something besides betting, then I might take another line. Until then, I don't see any other way to play it besides making value bets.

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summary:

in my experience, players at this limit will bet very often when checked to heads up. if you bet, you do not give them the chance to do this. also, if the flop checks through and you bet the turn, the turn card may improve their hand. if they would have folded to a flop bet, you now gain at least two big bets because you checked.

overthinking?

[Greg J]

It might boil down to the fact that I disagree with yr assessment of what a "typical player" at this limit does here. I don't really think in terms of typical player here, as these clowns are really strange and unpredictable. Many like to call bets, and raise if they catch a card that improves their hand. Some will actually raise this flop or even raise the turn UI trying to represent trips. I have not found much rhyme or reason to their play -- by my experience an unknown is prone to do random things with just about any hand. This includes everything from calling down and raising the river with a flopped full house to going to war on every street with a mid pocket pair.

[Aaron W.]

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also, if the flop checks through and you bet the turn, the turn card may improve their hand. if they would have folded to a flop bet, you now gain at least two big bets because you checked.

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I've pointed out elsewhere in this thread (I don't know if you've read the whole thing... I know I haven't) that if you get 2 BB every time villain pairs on the turn, on average you net a whopping .25 BB (6/44 = 13% - which isn't very often). If you get 3 BB, you net .38 BB on average. So if you *KNOW* he's going to fold to a flop bet, then give him the free card.