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#31
11-01-2005, 03:53 AM
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Re: AJs UTG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Does anyone else hate the opponent's turn check? [/ QUOTE ] Its a standard raising for a freecard. Yes, it gives his hand away. [/ QUOTE ] there's really no way around it. since two people called his flop bet, betting the turn is -EV and checking the turn gives away his hand. so he's just gotta check behind and pray IMO. 
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#32
11-01-2005, 03:53 AM
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Re: AJs UTG
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'll try to do some math on this one. It's an interesting situation. And semi-common. [/ QUOTE ] i'm glad an experienced player like yourself has found this interesting. let me know what you find.
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#33
11-01-2005, 03:56 AM
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Re: AJs UTG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i like the river raise, but to me calling the 3 bet is just bizarre. do a lot of opponents carry a bluff this far at 30/60? [/ QUOTE ] It might be thinking on too many levels, but Villain might know that Baron is checkraising A high to fold out CO's weak pair or whatever, since he knows his action looks like a missed draw, and Baron's action up to the river very much looks like A-high/overcards. Therefore Villain 3-bets to try to get Baron to reevaluate and fold his A-high, thinking that theres no way he goes 3 bets on the river w/just A-high. [/ QUOTE ] this is very well put. another thing to note is that the pot was somewhat large by that point (about 10BB) and no made hand made sense to him (if he was a thinking player. between his options of 3bet (costing 2BB to win 10BB) and folding (costing 0BB to win 0BB) he must have thought "man there's no way I can win this but to 3bet". however, i dont think im ever folding after the river raise.
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#34
11-01-2005, 03:57 AM
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Re: AJs UTG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Maybe I'll try to do some math on this one. It's an interesting situation. And semi-common. [/ QUOTE ] i'm glad an experienced player like yourself has found this interesting. let me know what you find. [/ QUOTE ] i would hope that this is, at the very least, "interesting" if not completely insane. i'm quite surprised that nobody has said the play is totally retarded getting only about 4 to 1 on your money. is this seriously standard?
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#35
11-01-2005, 04:05 AM
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Re: AJs UTG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Maybe I'll try to do some math on this one. It's an interesting situation. And semi-common. [/ QUOTE ] i'm glad an experienced player like yourself has found this interesting. let me know what you find. [/ QUOTE ] i would hope that this is, at the very least, "interesting" if not completely insane. i'm quite surprised that nobody has said the play is totally retarded getting only about 4 to 1 on your money. is this seriously standard? [/ QUOTE ] do you think i am good 1 in 4 or 5 times, given the opponent's line? i think I am. i can't see an argument for folding, but i think there are arguments for just calling his bet. does anyone think he ever plays 22 like this? he raises me and one other person on a flop that we are definitely seeing the turn on, then gives us a free card rather than trying to fold us out? it just makes no sense. people who suggest 22 are assuming he is a complete retard, which I think is a bad assumption at this limit. PS pete what made you change your mind about the hand? you seemed to like it up there [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#36
11-01-2005, 04:10 AM
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Re: AJs UTG
[ QUOTE ]
Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Are you sure this wasn't 10/20? Cuz nothing tilts me like missing an open-ended straight flush draw. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#37
11-01-2005, 04:13 AM
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Re: AJs UTG
[ QUOTE ]
do you think i am good 1 in 4 or 5 times, given the opponent's line? i think I am. i can't see an argument for folding, but i think there are arguments for just calling his bet. does anyone think he ever plays 22 like this? he raises me and one other person on a flop that we are definitely seeing the turn on, then gives us a free card rather than trying to fold us out? it just makes no sense. people who suggest 22 are assuming he is a complete retard, which I think is a bad assumption at this limit. PS pete what made you change your mind about the hand? you seemed to like it up there [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] i haven't changed my mind. i just didn't think everyone was a lagtard like me.
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#39
11-01-2005, 04:21 AM
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Re: AJs UTG
[ QUOTE ]
is the cr better than the check/call? [/ QUOTE ] assuming that we are good 90% of the time against the aggressor (just a random number, feel free to disagree) , does CO being an unknown make this more of a raise than a call? i keep thinking about it...i will let you all know my final thoughts tomorrow.
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#40
11-01-2005, 04:25 AM
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Re: AJs UTG
I think unless CO is really bad (like frequently call 2 cold on the river w/worse than middle pair bad) or a decent/good handreader, a river raise is better than a call. I think most mediocre types will just see two bets to them and fold their 9/6/PP, without going through the whole handreading process. The only hands that have Hero beat here that I could see Villain playing this way is Ad5d/Ad2d worse xd5d/xd2d combinations, depending on how loose Villain is, and many of those don't bet the river, much less 3-bet when its checkraised, so you really only have to worry about losing 2 bets when behind and not 3. Also, 22 I think is unlikely since if Villain is aggressive enough to raise 22 on the flop, he's always betting the turn. After you checkraise the river you rarely expect to get 3-bet, usually you'd expect a crying call from Adxd or just a fold from other missed draws.
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