To believe or not to believe - that is the quesiton. - Page 4

RJT · #31 10-07-2005, 11:44 PM

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Agnostics are atheists who haven't come out of the closet yet. Think homosexuals in the 1950's.
Either that, or they are 99.9999999% sure there is no god, but they are hedging their bets "just in case"
I think agnostics are gutless, and I probably have more disdain for them than I do for "true believers". Theists (in whatever denomination) just don't know any better, which is sad, but more palatable than people who profess to be agnostic or theists for public consumption but know better.

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It seems you are like god, Jasper109. Some in this thread seem to think believers (thinkers)like you do not exist.

RJT

#32 10-07-2005, 11:50 PM

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It is indeed difficult to discuss things with one who won’t state anything specific.... Kid likes to do that.

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I say a lot of things that are specific, but you are asking for unfounded beliefs on faith (since the questions are unanswerable), and I'm sorry if I don't have many of those to offer.

RJT · #33 10-07-2005, 11:53 PM

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Read some of my prev posts and I have already stated that such a statement cannot be supported. Unfortunately, theists like you seem to want to use that as some sort of argument for their side, which is absurd.

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Kid,

Actually it is almost the contrary. I have much more respect for those who say what it is they think. I have no interest in changing one’s view. (I leave that to David S.’s mission.) Nor do I feel any need to defend my view. Until (unless) someone can show my view to be impossible, I remain the Christian that I am (as I understand my religion.).

RJT

RJT · #34 10-07-2005, 11:58 PM

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It is indeed difficult to discuss things with one who won’t state anything specific.... Kid likes to do that.

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I say a lot of things that are specific, but you are asking for unfounded beliefs on faith (since the questions are unanswerable), and I'm sorry if I don't have many of those to offer.

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All I can say Kid is this: you seem to agree that it is hard to defend the statement “there is not God, period”. You also seem to suggest that there are no such folk who feel such. Then I read Jasper109. What am I to think? Thus my OP.

RJT

#35 10-08-2005, 12:02 AM

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All I can say Kid is this: you seem to agree that it is hard to defend the statement “there is not God, period”. You also seem to suggest that there are no such folk who feel such. Then I read Jasper109. What am I to think? Thus my OP.

RJT

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When did I suggest such a thing??????????????????????

RJT · #36 10-08-2005, 12:08 AM

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All I can say Kid is this: you seem to agree that it is hard to defend the statement “there is not God, period”. You also seem to suggest that there are no such folk who feel such. Then I read Jasper109. What am I to think? Thus my OP.

RJT

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When did I suggest such a thing??????????????????????

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When you criticized my OP. You suggested the topic was ridiculous. I should say, that is how understood you.

From this what you said:

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You wanted this type of response based on this thread you created, and I'll bet you wanted it just for a comment like that.

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And this:

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You know, you could have just asked that question rather than your mocking original post

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chezlaw · #37 10-08-2005, 12:13 AM

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See RJT, its pointless. This whole thread so far followed by a post that uses different meanings of athiest/agnostic to reach a dubious conclusion.

chez

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Chez,

It is indeed difficult to discuss things with one who won’t state anything specific. Kind of like Judo, in Judo the hero doesn’t actually ever attack just divert the opponent. Kid likes to do that. He seems to divert the question/discussion to: Well you guys do/say this. It is not my place to define atheists/agnostics. I used the friggin’ dictionary. That obviously was an error on my part.

I will ask this, before I get into another discussion with an A (I’ll just use the letter for now to mean whatever it is we are talking about atheist/agnostics), do you(said person) believe in the possibility of a god or that it is not at all possible. Like I would advise A’s to do when talking religion: Are you Jewish or Christian, if Christian what denomination, etc. Or better yet, to not even begin to discuss things with folk who are not interested in furthering the conversation as you are, chez. From now on I’ll just say to those not interested in serious conversation, “You are right.”

Oh,well, such is life.

RJT

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Its very noticable that people are very reluctant to explain what they mean which is a shame as we would achieve a lot more if people took more time to discover what they were discussing before they spent much time discussing it.

I used to think there were three reasons for this reluctance:

Debating tactic to win an argument unfairly.
Feeling that its a waste of time.
Fear that explaining a position clearly will only serve to make clear why it is irrational.

Recently I have had to add a fourth possibility, the DS view that it overcomplicates things (I don't understand what he means by this but I don't expect him to explain as it would overcomplicate things).

chez

RJT · #38 10-08-2005, 12:18 AM

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3)Fear that explaining a position clearly will only serve to make clear why it is irrational.

4) Recently I have had to add a fourth possibility, the DS view that it overcomplicates things (I don't understand what he means by this but I don't expect him to explain as it would overcomplicate things).

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Are you suggesting 3 and 4 are different? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

chezlaw · #39 10-08-2005, 12:18 AM

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It is indeed difficult to discuss things with one who won’t state anything specific.... Kid likes to do that.

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I say a lot of things that are specific, but you are asking for unfounded beliefs on faith (since the questions are unanswerable), and I'm sorry if I don't have many of those to offer.

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All I can say Kid is this: you seem to agree that it is hard to defend the statement “there is not God, period”. You also seem to suggest that there are no such folk who feel such. Then I read Jasper109. What am I to think? Thus my OP.

RJT

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Come on be fair, no-one is suggesting that all irrational people are theists (ok you can probably find some nutter who does insists that, but that goes to illustrate the point about being fair)

chez

chezlaw · #40 10-08-2005, 12:20 AM

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3)Fear that explaining a position clearly will only serve to make clear why it is irrational.

4) Recently I have had to add a fourth possibility, the DS view that it overcomplicates things (I don't understand what he means by this but I don't expect him to explain as it would overcomplicate things).

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Are you suggesting 3 and 4 are different? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I have faith [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

chez