There IS a difference between Party and Pokerstars tournaments.

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Do you think the distribution of hands is identical over a large sample size?

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I have a sample size of over 10,000 pocket AA at each site. At Party my win rate is 95%, at Stars it is only 10%.

BTW, the only loses at Party are when playing under the bald guy avatar.

[MicroBob]

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They use a different RNG (pokerstars even uses the mouse movement in its algorithm) and therefore the distribution CAN NOT be identical.


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Random = Random.

both are random.

To try to invent otherwise is silly.


To try to blame the RNG for your lack of success in pokerstars tournaments is idiotic.

Are the 2+2'ers who have done really well in Stars tourneys just 'getting lucky'?
Have they discovered some alternative strategy where they try to put in the underdog hand more often than not?
Were Barry Greenstein's money-finishes in the recent WCOOP tourneys somehow an accident?
What about the guy on here a week or two ago who was CERTAIN that party's deal was just 'not right' but that the cards on Stars 'seem to be pretty true and are obvioulsy okay'?
Am I borderline retarded for participating in yet another 'such-and-such site is less random' thread?


(fwiw - I too have been running really badly in stars tourneys of late)

[bocablkr]

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Did not say that it is defective just different. They use a different RNG (pokerstars even uses the mouse movement in its algorithm) and therefore the distribution CAN NOT be identical.

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The issue is not whether they are identical, it is whether they are statistically significantly different. And whether either is statistically significantly different from the normal distribution. The answer to both is no, based on empirical analysis of hundreds of thousands of hands done by posters on these forums.

In short, neither you nor anyone else has yet posted any statistically significant evidence that the online distribution of cards varies from the norm.

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I am aware of the statistical analysis performed by members here and at other sites. Aren't those just on the actual hands dealt. Are they ever on the number of times one hand comes up against another? Ex. number of times AA comes up against KK. You can have an analysis that shows the number of AA hands and the number of KK hands is statistically correct. But what if every time the KK hand was dealt an AA hand was dealt (of course an exaggeration).
Has anyone performed that type of analysis? If so, I apologize.

[benfranklin]

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When they turn the DOOM SWITCH on your account, then you are going to see the bad beats.

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The latest Pattern Map upgrade (Ver. 6.0.5) includes the ability to tell if your Doom Switch is on or off.

[bocablkr]

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To try to blame the RNG for your lack of success in pokerstars tournaments is idiotic.

Are the 2+2'ers who have done really well in Stars tourneys just 'getting lucky'?
Have they discovered some alternative strategy where they try to put in the underdog hand more often than not?


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I never said I wasn't having success at pokerstars - I have cashed many times. The original OP was that when I finally got knocked out it was usually with the favorite on Pokerstars vs. getting blinded out on Party. Maybe the antes are part of the reason??

[MicroBob]

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Has anyone performed that type of analysis?

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so is the 'riggedness' with 'evil-intent' or not?

Because if AA vs. KK somehow does come up more often online then that would seem to point to 'evil-intent' by the site itself which you claim isn't happening.

Additionally, you are claiming that the underdog hand wins more often anyway....so whether KK vs. AA comes up more often isn't even in the realm of the 'less-randomness' you were alluding to.

If KK beats AA more often than it should then you are back to what you are talking about.


I am unaware of such a KK vs. AA study at various online-sites.
Mostly because if one did exist I wouldn't care about it anyway.


I had a hand just a couple days ago where I folded QQ pre-flop when 2 other big stacks were all-in (and there was another PF raiser yet to act).
They had AA vs. KK.
I honestly do not remember whether this hand happened at Party or Stars. I think it was Party but I'm not positive.
it was just one of those 'golly...that was weird' type hands...I pat myself on the back for making a good fold... and I move on.


FWIW - My last significant KK vs. AA confrontation (I had KK, and lost) was at the WSOP. It sucked.
There was a lot of talk of all the KK's getting clobbered by AA that day.
Just a couple orbits earlier though I had QQ and doubled-up vs. AA.
We had a zillion big-hand confrontations at our table and we were talking about how many times each of us had shown AA or KK.
Johnny Chan was at the table and semi-jokingly made the dealer spread-out the deck to make sure we didn't somehow have a 5th ace in there.
It was pretty funny.

Live poker at the WSOP is SOOOOOOOO rigged.

[SampleTOOSMALL]

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Where's Sample Size Man when you need him?

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Ask and you shall receive!

***STAMP***

[Swedebubba]

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I have always recommended Partypoker to my friends for live games and Pokerstars for tournaments. There is no question that Pokerstars has a cleaner interface and more tournament games than Party.



However, recently I started playing tournaments on Party and noticed a difference immediately. Whenever I lost on Pokerstars I usually went to bed with a 'bad taste in my mouth' (no flames please). I would be all-in with the best hand and get beat on the turn or river (riverstars anyone). I kept saying to myself 'well at least you put it in with a favorite'.

On Partypoker, if I went in with the favorite it would usually hold up. I started cashing in a lot more tournaments. Now, if I lose, it is because I am being blinded out and forced to go in with an underdog. Every now and then my favorite will lose but it is certainly much less often than on Pokerstars. Anyone else notice this?

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UUUHHHHH, can anyone explain variance to me [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[bocablkr]

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so is the 'riggedness' with 'evil-intent' or not?

Because if AA vs. KK somehow does come up more often online then that would seem to point to 'evil-intent' by the site itself which you claim isn't happening.


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Micro, why would this necessarily imply 'evil intent' rather than just a consequence of the difference in the shuffle algorithm. There are many threads about pokerstars being rigged, etc. This was not meant to be one. I am sorry it turned out that way. It was really about the shuffle and whether that could have any influence on the types of hands dealt against each other.

[MicroBob]

Lots of people get knocked-out with the favored hand.
If you are a good player then you hopefully get your all-in's with the favorite more often than not.
But your favorite isn't THAT much of a favorite in most situations.
If I play 10 straight hands all-in and am the favorite each time the chances are extremely high that I will get knocked out on one of them.

It's the same principle as cash-game holdem where I am likely to suffer more bad-beats than most of my opponents.
I inflict fewer bad-beats because I am not chasing draws with bad-odds in the first place.
My opponents ARE however (at least, I hope they are) so they are going to win with worse hands against me more often than vice-versa.


Getting blinded-out on party should be less common because of the lack of ante's. You can hang onto your stack a bit longer.


If you don't notice the difference in strategy in a no-ante tourney vs. a tourney with antes then you just aren't making correct adjustments.


Party players are sometimes a bit more passive once you get near the bubble and into the money.
Therefore, you might be able to steal the blinds when the BB actually had the correct odds to be calling with most hands.

On Stars, the blind-defense of most players is still terrible...but is marginally better than on party.
If the BB has the correct odds to call with J7 many times they will actually do so....and some of those times your AK actually won't hold up.

This stuff isn't really relevant though.
You are claiming that the reason your 'favored hands' aren't holding up on Stars is because of the RNG.