Ribbo and Me

[Mendacious]

PS I never get tired of the crybaby picture, even when it is directed at me!

[TheWorstPlayer]

Not enough hands posted to keep WM, Rib and gerg posting on topic. I'll play more and post more. And I'm gonna get xorbie to post, too.

[MyTurn2Raise]

Hey, are we working together to improve our games on this forum? Or, to compare our stacks?

[dcasper70]

I'm very curious as to how this thread would have gone had the OP changed the HH player names, only to later reveal the participants....

[kurto]

I would be curious for someone to actually discuss the hands. I have to admit I was confused, particularly with the first one. I rather enjoy Ribbo's hand postings and was rather puzzled by his play on both hands. (Though more the first)

For hand 1... 2 pair and a weak low... I'm not sure I get his pot sized bet. I would think he would berate someone else if they posted this hand and played it the same way, no? I understand he has the Ace, but anyone with A2 and a weaker flush might stick around, anyone with a set...

For the second one... I am newer to this game, but my first thought is, against semi-decent players, do you call pot sized bets on the flop with a low that's likely split, no counterfeit protection, and no real high draws except for a backdoor flush?

I know I'm new at the game so perhaps I'm missing something. My first thought was he's either on tilt or a maniac.

From Hand 2 on the river:

Hero : noooo
Hero : I freakin had you colc
Ribbo: ship it

That's funny for some reason.

[ QUOTE ]
For hand 1... 2 pair and a weak low... I'm not sure I get his pot sized bet. I would think he would berate someone else if they posted this hand and played it the same way, no? I understand he has the Ace, but anyone with A2 and a weaker flush might stick around, anyone with a set...

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands should he be afraid of? Only a set plus A2 or big non-nut flush plus A2 have him in trouble. Do you check-fold just because someone might have these? I think playing hands like this aggressively are what gets hands like nut flush (or set) + A2 paid off in the long run. Maybe I am overstating table image, but I think this looks like a great flop for Ribbo as most anyone else will have trouble playing on facing heat with this board. Unfortunately, the OP had one of those few hands that could take the heat and pray that Ribbo didn't have the nut flush + nut low draw. But even then, Ribbo has outs, as the result shows.

[Mendacious]

I think the play with 2 pair is thoughtful, but I still don't like it, mostly because it is paying 2-1 to get the pot. I think the odds are going to be terrible if there is a caller, and the odds are pretty good that one person has a low draw with clubs, and table image was not working in Ribbo's favor, in that I in particular-- and probably most others-- know that he is capable of making huge moves at pots on draws. (Admittedly this move will get him paid more often when he actually HAS the nuts, so it may be +EV from that standpoint, although I would want to have a better draw than he had to make this move)

This play falls into a category of play that I would call fancy, but dubious. In otherwords, the logic of the play is very advanced, but in the real world it is flawed.

Raising a flush board because you have the Ace, or raising because you have blocker cards to the hand you are afraid of usually means you are heavily discounting the information that the better in front of you is telling you, and that the fold that you are hoping for is probably NOT coming.

Other than bad beats, this is probably the number 1 way for good players lose money.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the play with 2 pair is thoughtful, but I still don't like it, mostly because it is paying 2-1 to get the pot. I think the odds are going to be terrible if there is a caller, and the odds are pretty good that one person has a low draw with clubs, and table image was not working in Ribbo's favor, in that I in particular-- and probably most others-- know that he is capable of making huge moves at pots on draws. (Admittedly this move will get him paid more often when he actually HAS the nuts, so it may be +EV from that standpoint, although I would want to have a better draw than he had to make this move)

This play falls into a category of play that I would call fancy, but dubious. In otherwords, the logic of the play is very advanced, but in the real world it is flawed.

Raising a flush board because you have the Ace, or raising because you have blocker cards to the hand you are afraid of usually means you are heavily discounting the information that the better in front of you is telling you, and that the fold that you are hoping for is probably NOT coming.

Other than bad beats, this is probably the number 1 way for good players lose money.

[/ QUOTE ]

True.

[Cooker]

[ QUOTE ]

Raising a flush board because you have the Ace, or raising because you have blocker cards to the hand you are afraid of usually means you are heavily discounting the information that the better in front of you is telling you, and that the fold that you are hoping for is probably NOT coming.


[/ QUOTE ]

Many people bet the flop then fold to a raise with a K-high flush if they have no low draw. I would probably try this raise with his hand since he has a decent (not great) draw against a flush, a low draw that may steal half the pot if the opponent won't let go of his non-nut flush, and knowledge that you cannot possibly have the nuts. I think those 3 things add up to a reasonable pot sized semi-bluff looking at this hand in a vacuum. I wouldn't even call this advanced, but you need to know your opponent is capable of folding flushes to probably make it completely correct. If his table image is that of a reckless maniac, then the move might be a bit dubious, but I am not going to fault him for a move I think is fairly solid play.

Discrediting big hands due to blockers is more suspect, but this situation is different. He knows you don't have a nut flush. That is an huge informational advantage. This would be similar to bluffing a JT945 rainbow board with QQQQ in the hole. If you have QQQ3 you have blockers, but this bet becomes more suspect. With QQQQ or the naked ace with a 3 flush on board you don't just have blockers to a big hand you have the nuts totally blocked. A worse straight or flush should feel a ton of pressure to call that bet.