To all the gun nuts out there.

[theweatherman]

someone made the point that guns dont affect innocent people like a bomb might, I was pointing out that guns can and do affect other people all the time, and that certain types of (popular)rounds are in fact designed to go through people and thus endager bystanders and property.

Police holow points are design to take people down right away (ie one shot) and also to stay in the target instead of passing through (speciffically to prevent unwanted casualties.)

[tomdemaine]

Why not let the "gun nuts" have their guns? Fear of guns in the house may or may not reduce crime but if those people want to make the sacrifice of being X times more likely to be shot with their own gun to possibly reduce the propensity to commit a crime why should you care? As long as there's a properly enforced law to stop idiots and criminals from owning guns and the owners are made aware of the dangers of owning a gun then whats the problem?

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
fear for your life does not create the legal means for responding with deadly force. Your life has to actually be in danger, threatening a person does not count. If you were acutally being hit (with a leathal intent) or stabbed then you probably can shoot to kill. Otherwise you get arrested for manslaughter or murder two.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, fear for your life does legally allow the use of deadly force. I have taken several self-defense courses, all taught by law enforcement officers. Below is a short quote from Wiki, which is 100% in agreement with everything I have ever been taught by law enforcement officers.

[ QUOTE ]
Self defense law in the United States

While the statutes defining the legitimate use of force in defense of a person vary from state to state, the general rule makes an important distinction between the use of physical force and deadly physical force. A person may use physical force to prevent imminent physical injury, however a person may not use deadly physical force unless that person is in reasonable fear of serious physical injury or death.

[/ QUOTE ]

To repeat, you may use lethal force <font color="red"> when in reasonable fear of serious physical injury or death. </font> The standard is to some extent relative and subjective. If you are a 200 lb. man and a 100 lb. old lady is attacking you with her umbrella, you can't shoot her. (Damn!) If a big guy with a tire iron is coming at you, you can pull a gun, and if he does not stop, you can shoot him. You don't have to warn him or wait for him to hit you first. If you are in fear of serious physical injury, you can shoot.

One cop told our class, when fearful and in doubt, shoot. It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
someone made the point that guns dont affect innocent people like a bomb might,

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I said that WMDs cannot be pinpoint-targeted at particular aggressors, while baseball bats, knives, BB guns, Uzis, AK-47s, bazookas, and howitzers (i.e. "arms") can. I explicitly stated that such arms *can* be used to target innocents.

[renodoc]

[ QUOTE ]
fear for your life does not create the legal means for responding with deadly force. Your life has to actually be in danger, threatening a person does not count. If you were acutally being hit (with a leathal intent) or stabbed then you probably can shoot to kill. Otherwise you get arrested for manslaughter or murder two.

[/ QUOTE ]


Were you educated in a public school? This sounds like the usual garbage teachers spew out these days. Utterly incorrect.

[BCPVP]

What he said is below even public school (hey I went to public school!). God help him if he ever has a serious threat to his life or the life of his friends/family, because it's quite clear he won't.

[ QUOTE ]
someone made the point that guns dont affect innocent people like a bomb might, I was pointing out that guns can and do affect other people all the time, and that certain types of (popular)rounds are in fact designed to go through people and thus endager bystanders and property.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any sources or data showing how bullets fired by law-abiding citizens in self-defense situations are going through people all the time and hitting bystanders?

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
D-E-T-E-R-A-N-C-E. Say it with me now.

[/ QUOTE ]

S-P-E-L-L-I-N-G. Learn it without me now.

-ptmusic

[ptmusic]

Is there no gun owner here willing to "draw the line" anywhere below WMD's?

-ptmusic

[twowords]

And could any please explain why semi-automatic rifles and armor-piercing bullets are legal? Hand-guns, regular rifles, and shotguns are a good enough deterent, no? What good are the former weapons, because cops want them outlawed for obvious reasons and they are still legal.