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#31
09-24-2005, 10:22 PM
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Re: When Genuises Are Certain
[ QUOTE ]
Fancy it? [/ QUOTE ] No thanks. I wasn't looking for a debate. DS said I disagree with Russell on any subject, which I never said. All I ever said about Bertie is how stupid his anti-Christian book is, and I may have quoted him with approval concerning his agreement with Hume about induction. My post was mostly to re-iterate the poor quality of Russell's book, which I think DS agrees with, which makes me wonder why he had to drag me in to his tri-post. I have no doubt any real issue Russell touched on will eventually come up. We can cross swords then. 
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#32
09-24-2005, 10:33 PM
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Re: When Genuises Are Certain
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Fancy it? [/ QUOTE ] No thanks. I wasn't looking for a debate. DS said I disagree with Russell on any subject, which I never said. All I ever said about Bertie is how stupid his anti-Christian book is, and I may have quoted him with approval concerning his agreement with Hume about induction. My post was mostly to re-iterate the poor quality of Russell's book, which I think DS agrees with, which makes me wonder why he had to drag me in to his tri-post. I have no doubt any real issue Russell touched on will eventually come up. We can cross swords then. [/ QUOTE ] *Drops popcorn, picks up chair, and throws it at Not Ready* This is how soccer riots begin you know? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#34
09-25-2005, 03:55 AM
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Re: When Genuises Are Certain
Hey Dave, this is a really good post. I never thought about things your way before, I will be thinking about this point for a while now. Anyway, keep up the good work in the "Science, Math, and Philosophy" forum, what you say is so thought provoking, great stuff, keep it coming!!
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#36
09-25-2005, 12:29 PM
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Re: Executive Summary
Sometimes, though, geniuses don't use language as precisely as they might have and that those of us who are less than geniuses might have some trouble understanding exactly what they're saying. I, for one, then, am glad David precisely defined his position on the issue.
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#37
09-25-2005, 02:04 PM
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Re: When Genuises Are Certain
The problem with laying a big price on the genius is that the truth of the Christian gospel is not a *purely* intellectual matter.
If the Bible is true in what it claims about humanity, God and the need for redemption (a proposition that most here would not affirm) then there would be other, more important factors to consider besides intelligence. Scripture's claims are clear. The natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit, namely the gospel (that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, was raised and those who put their faith in him will be delivered/saved). Not only does scripture claim that the natural man (intelligent or not) DOES not accept the gospel. It claims that he CANNOT. [ QUOTE ] 1Co 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 1Co 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.[3] 1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] (Joh 6:44 ESV) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (Joh 6:45 ESV) It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me -- [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] (2Co 4:4 ESV) In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2Co 4:5 ESV) For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants[2] for Jesus' sake. (2Co 4:6 ESV) For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] (1Jo 5:20 ESV) And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. [/ QUOTE ]
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#38
09-25-2005, 02:10 PM
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Re: When Genuises Are Certain
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with laying a big price on the genius is that the truth of the Christian gospel is not a *purely* intellectual matter. If the Bible is true in what it claims about humanity, God and the need for redemption (a proposition that most here would not affirm) then there would be other, more important factors to consider besides intelligence. [/ QUOTE ] That would confirm the view that religous belief isn't rational, wouldn't it? Which genius might disagree with the idea that non-rational beliefs aren't rational? chez
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#39
09-25-2005, 02:28 PM
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Re: When Genuises Are Certain
[ QUOTE ]
That would confirm the view that religous belief isn't rational, wouldn't it? [/ QUOTE ] Not at all. Just because an otherwise rational being does not accept the truth of the gospel does not mean that it is irrational to believe. To the contrary. Another glimpse into the mind of fallen humanity: [ QUOTE ] (Rom 1:18 ESV) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. (Rom 1:19 ESV) For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:20 ESV) For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. (Rom 1:21 ESV) For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [/ QUOTE ] The key there is "by their unrighteousness suppress the truth." In order to keep living like they want to, they suppress the truths about God because if they acknowledge that God's word is true, that has a dramatic effect on how they live and quite frankly they like their life just the way it is, thank you very much.
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#40
09-25-2005, 02:33 PM
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Re: When Genuises Are Certain
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] That would confirm the view that religous belief isn't rational, wouldn't it? [/ QUOTE ] Not at all. Just because an otherwise rational being does not accept the truth of the gospel does not mean that it is irrational to believe. To the contrary. Another glimpse into the mind of fallen humanity: [ QUOTE ] (Rom 1:18 ESV) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. (Rom 1:19 ESV) For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:20 ESV) For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. (Rom 1:21 ESV) For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [/ QUOTE ] The key there is "by their unrighteousness suppress the truth." In order to keep living like they want to, they suppress the truths about God because if they acknowledge that God's word is true, that has a dramatic effect on how they live and quite frankly they like their life just the way it is, thank you very much. [/ QUOTE ] em, okay, thanks very much. chez
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