Andrew Card confirms coverup

I think there were, but I don't know if the US helped train them or not.


My point is that INTERNAL torture in the former USSR and Red China, and mass murders of THEIR OWN citizens, imprisonment of political prisoners in Siberia where 1/3 of them died due to hardships are were even worse, Mao's ENGINEERED FAMINE which was the world's worst and deadliest famine in history, and of course all the atrocities the Nazis committed, are FAR WORSE. That's what I am saying...yes, the US has done some bad things, even some very bad things, but the Soviets, Red Chinese, and Nazis were simply FAR worse and did FAR more horrible things on a MASSIVE scale.


If you are pointing out something bad the US may have been involved in, OK...but if you are using it as an example of how we were as bad as them, you're simply wrong...far wrong. They were undeniably many times worse than us.

That's not my argument and that's NOT what I wrote; one paragraph deals with the article on Sabra/Chatila article,and the second paragraph deals with the overall Israeli-Palestinian situation. Points in the second paragraph are not intended to deal specifically with the Sabra/Chatila situation. You are misinterpreting what I wrote.

"I think Nixon was more or less honest enough for a President. OK, perhaps a little less:-)... but really not all that bad on the scale of "


You have not read Haldeman's diaries? You have not read the transcripts of the White House tapes - not even a Best Of? You have not read Henry "The Turd" Kissinger's memoirs? (The little war criminal is so busy trying to get into the pantheon of greatest diplomats that he can't help incriminating both himself and the Nixon.)


I would suggest that the record (not of his opponents but of those who served him) paints a very different picture that what you want to believe.


Who said that Dishonest=Tough? Ike was a great American President. He was honest to a fault and he had the guts to call it like it is, when he retired ("..military/economic establishment"). I'd rather have Ike than the nincompoop currently pretending to be the boss in the Oval Office.


--Cyrus

see chris's post how the US trained terrorists in school of americas; does that make us a legitimate military target, etc.


brad

Cyrus,


I read the entire White House Transcripts many years ago...it took quite a while to wade through it all.


I'm not saying honest always = weak or dishonest always = tough. However given that we very rarely are blessed with all the desirable qualities in a leader, and given that the world is a very dangerous and dishonest place in many ways, I want a competent leader...one who knows how to wheel and deal with the corrupt bastards he will surely be wheeling and dealing with overseas..and at home too, to a certain extent. I tend to think someone with a bit of experience in these areas himself will probably prove a tougher opponent for our adversaries to crack. As an example, let's not forget that many GOVERNMENTS in the world are inextricably entwined with the world drug trade and smuggling...the scale of corruption in the US is laughably small by comparison. If you'd like a good read and a factual account of this, I recommend The Underground Empire: Where Crime and Governments Embrace by award-winning journalist James Mills. It makes Watergate look like tiddlywinks, truly.

I don't know much at all about what Chris is talking about here. How can I judge if it might make us a legitimate target or not, then. Besides I am wary of drawing equivalences unless the parallels are very strong and the differences are minor. My main point in this part of this thread is that sure we were bad...or even horrible...but if we were horrible, certain others were still 10 or 100 times worse.

Of course they did. The USA stands for the preservation of white anglo-saxon property and assets.Still, as Americans we all benefit. At least we can watch T.V.

"Let's not forget that many GOVERNMENTS in the world are inextricably entwined with the world drug trade and smuggling...the scale of corruption in the US is laughably small by comparison. If you'd like a good read and a factual account of this, I recommend The Underground Empire: Where Crime and Governments Embrace by award-winning journalist James Mills. It makes Watergate look like tiddlywinks, truly."


I'm ordering it.


But then, you too should look into the doings of the pre-eminent drug trader of them all, namely the administration of the United States of America. "Laughably small corruption"?! I don't think so!


My recommendation? White Out by Cockburn and St. Clair.

OK, I'll order it. You might have to order a used copy of the book, however; last year I found it was out of print. If you have trouble finding it, perhaps we could instead do a temporary book swap by mail if you would care to.