For AndyFox et.al.

[Michael Davis]

I was not advocating eugenics.

[adios]

"National Society of Black Engineers:
Black Caucus of the American Library Association
Official Home Page of the Congressional Black Caucus
California Legislative Black Caucus
The National Black Caucus of State Legislators :
California Librarians Black Caucus (CLBC)
Louisiana Legislative Black Caucus Home Page
Official Homepage of the Congressional Black Caucus of the 108th ...
Sponsored by the Black Caucus of NCTE and by NCTE
Michigan Legislative Black Caucus:"

I believe groups like these promote divisiveness in our society in many ways. One of the reasons that the Republicans have the hard core religious right as loyal constituency is that black voters vote Democrat about 90-10. With the such a big constituency solidly in one camp the Republicans have had to pander to the religious right to gain their solid loyalty as a result. This is in addition to the obvious way that these groups promote divisiveness which is of course that a certain race is organizing itself to promote it's interests above and at the expense of other races. Could you imagine the furor in Congress if the Republicans started a "white caucus" in either chamber? I don't share your apparent values (I'm not sure where you stand because I haven't read everything in detail) but I agree with you that it is way wrong to condone this sort of thing for one race and condemn it for another. The justification seems to be that blacks in the USA are an oppressed lot. First of all it depends on how you define oppression but that would seem like an extremist outlook to me. One has to wonder why Blacks in this country vote so one sidedly. Of course part of the reason is that Blacks have a higher rate of poverty and thus feel disenfranchised. But are the Democrats really helping to improve their lot all that much? Are government transfer payments all that critical to the economic well being of the poverty stricken which include a disportionate amount of blacks? As far as I can tell the "War on Poverty" was an unmitigated disaster. If it was so successful why haven't Blacks improved their lot more economically? Another interesting study might be how the average black hs fared economically since Reagan took office. It seems that the more enfranchised a person feels in our society the more susceptible if you will to the Republican message. I'm almost certain that among Blacks who have maintained an income level that say is in the top 40% of wage earners, you'd find a great deal more Republicans among them than you would for the poverty stricken. Which makes me wonder if the Democrats have any vested interest in seeing Blacks being assimilated into the middle and upper echelon wage earners in the proportion that they represent population wise. I mean why would the Democrats want to see that if it's going to cost them votes? Take Jesse Jackson for instance has he or has he not exploited blacks while enriching himself? This is why the DNC and Democratic congressional leaders promote class warfare and to large extent repudiate capitalism and promote socialism. It's laughable almost to the point of being hilarious that the Democrats are now going to run on fiscal austerity and a balanced budget. Sorry to knock the Democrats yet again but I can't see where they are helping Blacks one iota and so I wonder what the purpose of these committees actually is. Actually I have fairly good idea I believe.

[John Cole]

Tom,

And, you must also wonder, for fairness sake, why the religious fundamentalists vote so one-sided as well. If I recall, neither Robertson, Falwell, or Graham leads the ascetic life, at least judging from the suits they wear.

Why don't some organizations label themselves "White"? Answer: They don't have to.

John

PS. I think it makes perfect sense to vote for whichever party proposes to represent the group's interest the best.
Note "proposes."

[andyfox]

"the problems caused by black males to cross over into the white (and possibly asian) groups. This is not a good thing."

An excellent summary of your philosophy.

[andyfox]

In addition to Sahlins, a reader by John Gowdy called Limited Wants, Unlimited Means is quite good.

[andyfox]

I have no doubt that you're speaking from the heart. You may think your negative feelings about "africans" are based on biology, but their based on prejudice, conditioned by your generalizing about them based on a few experiences. Right after you say biology conditions your feeling, you say that you find their body types and traits non-attractive. Isn't it possible that the negative feelings you have about how they look influence your other feelings about them?

Your understanding of Jews and Palestinians living together peacefully is a misunderstanding. The Palestinians objected from the very beginning when the Zionists came to settle in their homeland because they recognized that they intended to take over. It is not the fact of Jewishness or Palestinian-ness that makes them natural enemies. It is the political fact of them both considering the same territory their homeland.

Population density has nothing at all to do with strife.

[andyfox]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/eleanor...s/pande06.html

[andyfox]

Race consideration on paper is racism, period. God you have a twisted sense of logic. Too much poker Mr. Fox. Seems straight forward linear logic has you confounded. (Of course it's a given, I suck at poker. I admit it.)

-My dictionary has two definitions of racism: 1) The notion that one's own ethnic stock is superior; 2) Discrimination or prejudice based on racism.

By the first definition, you are racist. By the second definition, a system which results in blacks being second class citizens is racist. Things designed to eliminate that de facto racism aer anti-racist.

The reason property values go down when black move in is because of how blacks are. The reduction of property value is the effect, not the cause.

-A price example of your racism under definition one.

Have you ever stopped in all this to simply ask, "Why are blacks percieved as a negative?" I'd bet you haven't. So ask yourself that and see if you can come up with some objective answers other than "because whites are racists".

-I don't perceive blacks as a negative.

As you point out, "People *learn* to hate". In other words, they have to have encounted a reason to hate.

Think on that some.

-I have. You hate blacks because you have experienced a few things in your life, (such as the one you relate below) and assume all blacks are bad. My house was burglarized by a black person. And my car was stolen by a white person. So what?

I was once fired for my race (I believe) at a large credit card company.

I was contracted to a Black Woman manager with a 95% black department.

I elected to accept a ride to the Chrismas party with a white person rather than drive. (Was in an area I didn't know).

I continued to hang with some of the white folks a the party.

Well between that and my conservative non-ghetto style clothes on the job, I could tell she made a decision, since I didn't "Homie-ize" myself and dress crappy.

-You could "tell" this? How could you tell?

Took about 2 days after the party to make an excuse.

Course that's my side. There's always two sides.

I'd have left at the first opportunity anyway. Didn't realize I was going to be in that situation.

I do not want to deny protections for blacks. But I do not what them banding together in Congress if whites can't either.

-Why can't white bands together as whites? Of course they can. Of course it wouldn't be politically popular, so they don't do it.

*In my own personal space* (which includes anything close enough to touch me) and in a nieghborhood where others feel as I do, we should be able to say who we do or do not want there. Geez, gated communities keep "strangers" and poor people out don't they?

-Gated communities do not keep out black who want to own property there. And they do not keep out blacks who are invited guests because they are black and , therefore, you do not want them there to touch you or be close to you.

Why should *I* have to move. The old law school legal saw about property rights used to be "first in time, first in right".

-You don't have to move. You have the option of moving.

As for an apartment building. If *I* don't own it... not my decision. But if I *do own it*, it ought to be. Same for the restaurant. It should be the owner's decision.

-So you want to be able to restrict blacks, because you don't like them, from being able to live in an aparment or eat in a restaurant. Disgusting.

What part of "personal choice" do you keep missing.

-The part where your "personal choice" eliminate personal choice for the other person.

You continue to want to align me with older racists like Nazis and Segregationists. I agree with neither. I'm specifically against any group that bands together to push their views on others. A group of people who feel like I do and want to separate out assets is quite different from a group that wants to pass laws to force a behavioral standard.

I'm saying, "Let us make our own choices, unfettered". NOT, "Hey you all need to live my way or be penalized". My whole stance on this is a lot more peaceful than you seem to recognize.

Yes, I guess my spelling of Mr. Marshall's name is off. Been a few years since I was in law school.

You keep missing that I do not support Nazi type groups and want to keep aligning me with them. I'd fight against a "Neo-Nazi" caucus too.

-I don't recall injecting the word Nazi into the discussion.

It's kind of hard to avoid african products and materials if the manufacturers don't tell you they are there. I've tried on several occasions to get on manufacturer to tell me where the mahaogany in his products come from. Never get a straight answer. But given AGAO, these products will be brought in without your knowledge of what they are incorporated into.

And besides, if the *hole next to me brings african products into the workplace, like one person I know why has a blanket from Nairobi... then at some particulate matter level he's contaminating me... same as second hand smoke. Same as the techno-dweebs 'round here you've heard me mention that have "hit or miss" personal hygiene.

-I'm not sure what kind of workplace has blankets in them, but for the sake of argument, how would my bringing a blanket made in Nairbobi into my neighboring workplace harm you?

Why do I dislike seeing blacks in the media so much?
Because the media sets trends. I wouldn't want any daughters of mine deciding the blacks are glamorous and decide to sleep with a group that has a higher probability of diseaase and a higher probability the father isn't going to stick around. That's not a racial comment, that's what the stats show. Sorry if it falls along racial lines. I feel bad even saying it, but it's true nonetheless.

-Incredible.

Hollywood made drugs look glamorous in the 60,70's and beyond.... how many of your friends died in drug related accidents or incidents? Several of mine have.

Face it people emulate TV. The Jackass Movie or whatever it was already has people hurting themselves.

Well, I'm done. My case stands as far as I can see. 1) Non-whites seem to be allowed to organize on racial lines, but whites cannot; 2) The media is pushing african culture, for whatever reasons, likely money and perhaps Jewish use of blacks as a way to shift focus; 3) Any racial terms in law that give edges on racial lines are discrimatory and racist, even if it's "minorities" that get the edge.

-Ah, anti-semitism as well as racism. I suppose they usually come together.

I believe your many statements in this thread speak for themselves and require no more comment from me. Since your done and you feel your case stands, I'm done too.

[andyfox]

"having some jewish folk married into the family, I can say with authenticity, some stereotypes do hold a little water."

-OK, I'll bit: which "jewish folk" stereotypes" do you think hold a little water? I promise not to give you a hard time, not to even respond. Just want to see what you think and I'll let it stand on its own.

[andyfox]

Never mind my post above, where I asked you to indicate which stereotypes about Jews you found to have validity, I hadn't seen this post yet, which answers my question.