A Simple question that involves Science, Math, and Philosophy

[Myrtle]

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Very enjoyable post.

Thanks.
Sounds

-Zeno

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......thanks much for the link. It will take this old dog a few re-reads & some time to hopefully comprehend it, but will give it my best shot!

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[Myrtle]

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Myrtle,

A very moving post. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

RJT

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....You're very welcome.

I am wondering if you also find that music has similar 'communicative' components for you?

There is the music itself, and then, if there are lyrics along with the music, they must also be factored into its' overall meaning.

Is the form of communication that I'm alluding to just between me and the composer only, or is there some sort of 'universal code' that can be attributed to a particular piece?

In other words, when the music hall is full, and all of us are all listening to the same piece at the same time, is the 'effect' essentialy the same for all of us?

I have a feeling that this is not a black & white issue, which may be stating the obvious.

What I'm searching for goes something like this:

We're all listening to a performance of Liszt's "Faust Symphony", and all of us are familiar with the story line of Faust. We have read the program, and it gives us a written analysis of 'what the music is all about' from the program writers point of view.

Do these two issues not now predispose us to interpreting the music in a certain similar fashion? Or....do they simply set a common baseline for overall interpretation upon which our individual, unique 'understanding' is built?

Have you ever found yourself with another person, and after listening to a piece of music, turning to them and nodding, as if simply saying "ya", convinced that you've both shared the same set of communications without even having to talk about it?

It seems to me that each of our own unique personal histories and experiences must have a bearing on what we 'get' out of any piece of music.

What I'm searching for here is an attempt to come to some sort of understanding as to where the universal 'understanding' (for lack of a better term) is overtaken by the 'personal understanding'?

[Myrtle]

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] myrtle: quite simply; one of the very best contributions; equal or better than one of john cole's.

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....That could be taken in more than one way! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] However, I'll take it as a compliment, and thank you for it.

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clearly memory is associated with music; remember the mash episode where the boston dr. could not bear to listen to one of his favorite symphonies; due to it now being associated with death and cruelty...

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...yes, indeed. An example of that for me is the movie "The Deer Hunter". I have only seen it once, and after having watched it that one time, I can never watch it again....It's simply too close for me.

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smell is another key sense associated with memory..and of course smell neurons are right down in the nose, but are technically a part of the cns; you do blow out part of your brains; so to speak; every time you sneeze;;

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...agree with the equation of smell (and other senses) and how it correlates to memory. As far as blowing our brains out? It is truly amazing then, that those of us with constant sinusitis are even able to sit at a keyboard and put a sentence together, eh? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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so you seee; we are here to learn...you take with you what you gave; when you look down on that lump of clay; you will not want to go back..and some hear music here; although it is the light; the intense white, pure light that is remembered; but those gaudy baubles we fought so hard to obtain; they very quickly are someone else's...

try..

gl

[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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....try we must, and try I will [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[unreal_nh]

because music is beautiful [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[RJT]

This is somewhat off topic (but not totally). There are only a finite number of notes (ABCDEFG and their offshoots). Why is it that all the music that can ever be written has not reached the end, yet?

Can a computer program be written to produce all the finite number of pieces?
If so, why hasn’t it yet been written?
If not, why can’t it?

p.s I do want to think about your question more. Great question. I don’t have much understanding of classical music (nor composition in general), so my answer might not be of much interest. But, music has played (and still does) a big part in my life. We’ll see what we can come up with.

p.p.s. I do already know that music is one of the most powerful aspects of great films. My answer will probably revolve around the shared experience in watching a great film.

[Myrtle]

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This is somewhat off topic (but not totally). There are only a finite number of notes (ABCDEFG and their offshoots). Why is it that all the music that can ever be written has not reached the end, yet?

Can a computer program be written to produce all the finite number of pieces?
If so, why hasn’t it yet been written?
If not, why can’t it?

p.s I do want to think about your question more. Great question. I don’t have much understanding of classical music (nor composition in general), so my answer might not be of much interest. But, music has played (and still does) a big part in my life. We’ll see what we can come up with.

p.p.s. I do already know that music is one of the most powerful aspects of great films. My answer will probably revolve around the shared experience in watching a great film.

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To the first question: My guess would be.....yes.....It's the old 'million years, million monkeys, million typewriter scenario, but I would defer to the math experts for a supported answer.

Although I used symphonic music in my examples, I could just as easily have used popular music, although I suspect that the answer there is probably a bit more complicated, as lyrics play a very meaningful part in most current forms of popular music. By the inclusion of lyrics, there is now communication at 2 different levels, increasing the potential complexity of the message(s).

Music & Great films? I'm in virtual total agreement with you, however, regardless of how well the music supports the plot & cinematography, it is still secondary to both.

[Cooker]

First, the probability that random typing would generate 1 Shakespeare play in the age of the universe is roughly 10^(-100) I believe (this is a statistics problem that i solved about 4 years ago from Kittel and Kromers Statistical Mechanics text the problem is in Chapter 1 I believe). I believe it unlikely that the total number of songs created approaches the total number possible.

[Myrtle]

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First, the probability that random typing would generate 1 Shakespeare play in the age of the universe is roughly 10^(-100) I believe (this is a statistics problem that i solved about 4 years ago from Kittel and Kromers Statistical Mechanics text the problem is in Chapter 1 I believe). I believe it unlikely that the total number of songs created approaches the total number possible.

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Thanks much for the supported clarification.

As I said, the best that I can do with it is to guess, because I suck at math. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]